Okay, so I'm excited to start today and talk with my friend and customer of Aclymate to me, Laura Rossi with Amerant Bank So Laura, I'd love it if you could just introduce yourself a little bit and tell me a little bit about your background and what makes you, you.
Laura Rossi (00:19.326)
Of course, hi Mike. Professionally speaking here at Amerant, I am the Senior Vice President and Head of Investor Relations and Sustainability. I am originally from Columbia, from Medellin, where I spent most of my childhood, even though I moved here to Miami in 2000, actually to Michigan, Wisconsin in the early 2000s, and then I started living here in Miami in 2001.
Laura Rossi (00:49.5)
Miami now hits pretty close to home. In other aspects of my life, I am also a wife, a mother of two teenagers, and I enjoy most being around friends and family and good food. Yeah.
Mike Smith (01:05.082)
Good food. I'd imagine Miami's, the couple times I've been there, it's well known for its food. Do you have a favorite restaurant that you'd like to go to?
Laura Rossi (01:10.527)
Laura Rossi (01:14.806)
Many. I have many and I am one of those people who like a lot of cuisines. It's difficult for me to choose just like a single restaurant or a single cuisine. But I just the fact of going out and be with friends and family around good food is just something that I enjoy.
Mike Smith (01:31.974)
I can see that just in your face. Now you said you're the senior vice president for investor relations, but in your capacity here with Acclimate, we're talking a lot about climate. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about how you ended up having to deal with climate for Amerit.
Laura Rossi (01:34.514)
Laura Rossi (01:48.994)
And so it is kind of a natural transition that it's taking place at many companies that because the head of IR is so close to the strategy of the company, but also to the messaging that the company wants to put out, as well as the market participants, that being investors, analysts, rating agencies, the sustainability has fallen in many cases in these departments.
felt here, I was the head of investor relations prior to taking on the sustainability role and we just felt that it was the natural place for it to be because I was not only able to track and monitor our goals, our targets, the performance of those involved, but I was also able to integrate into the message that we were already driving through the IR unit, you know, to our market participants. So that's how it came about.
Mike Smith (02:49.582)
Gotcha. And how long have you been wearing that sustainability hat in addition to... There's a lot of things going on in IR, so...
Laura Rossi (02:55.253)
For sustainability in a specific, Amaranth started in 2021 where our CEO Jerry Plush joined as a program per se because as a bank Amaranth has always been very much involved with the community and trying to make a contribution in the markets that we serve. But Jerry was the one that really brought it in as a program and as a, you know, as a, let's say following the environmental social governance structure.
was very important at that time. And then me personally in August, around August 2022, so a year ago, it's when we did the transition and we moved from having sustainability be a project where we were just trying to identify and do materiality assessment, you know, what were the topics that we wanted to focus on, governance, etc. And we handled it as a project.
Laura Rossi (03:56.032)
function and we're really trying to make this program roll and belonging to each one of the functional units that's when I came into the picture.
Mike Smith (04:05.122)
And how did you feel about having that role kind of placed under your responsibility?
Laura Rossi (04:10.794)
No, I really liked it. I am someone who likes challenges. I am very driven and it just fit naturally. So I took on it and I saw the challenge to embed it into our day to day. And that's what I've been focusing on.
Mike Smith (04:31.578)
I can say from personal experience that comes through. You are a very brass tacks kind of gal. You got right down to the points right on our very first meeting and I really appreciate that about you. What were some of the challenges with that when you first started taking that on? What were things that you didn't know about, what you had to learn about? Tell me about your journey.
Laura Rossi (04:54.542)
Okay, so there are several.
Internally, I would say the one challenge that we had is that when we started with this topic, developing it as a project, we were working based on people's passion, right? You know, people who naturally were climate oriented or had passion for community serving or, you know, something of that
Laura Rossi (05:29.452)
The program got to a point where that's very important in the beginning, in the stages where you're trying to get it going, but when you need the program to produce the results on a daily basis, it really needs to be focused on the function where that task belongs. So one of the first challenges that I tried to tackle was to be able to identify where
program needed to be, in what department it really belonged because of the functional purpose of that unit. So identifying that and really moving away from just wanting to contribute or asking for a favor into being more strategic into the functions that each initiative needs to be at was one of the challenges, but that was quickly identified and overcome.
thing just more in the macro environment. To me there is still a lot of ambiguity regarding the frameworks that companies need to follow. It is almost like optional. You can choose here, you can choose that, you can report based on a framework. If you don't want you can just report based on your own criteria. So I would really like to have more of a guideline.
you know, this is what companies need to do. And if you're, you know, from one billion to 10 billion, then this is the framework that you need to follow. I just wish there was a little bit more guidance regarding frameworks. And I would also say ratings, the rating system, or the rating agencies seem to still be very black box, especially for issuing companies.
sometimes it's difficult to really understand why of the why of the ratings. There is not apples to apples between companies. So those are definitely challenges that I that I would point to.
Mike Smith (07:40.91)
Gotcha. Now you said that this was, the sustainability journey of Amorant began in 2021 and the CEO, Jerry, took over. So maybe you could tell me just a little bit more about Amorant as a bank and then why, and why you've decided, like as an organization, have decided to go down this pathway of sustainability.
Laura Rossi (07:53.163)
Laura Rossi (08:05.086)
Of course. I would say, and this is probably something you've heard many times, banks are really a key character in the journey of sustainability globally because banks are the ones that enable funding to go around and whether it's company or consumers, the fact that we can lend out
make either an environmental project or a social project take place, it's very relevant. So I would say, and that's why I mentioned in the beginning of this conversation, that it was not in 2021 that we started to contribute. As a bank, banks, inherently, they contribute to the communities that they serve, and they have social impact for sure. And the fundamentals of a bank tend to be
with the governance aspect of ESG or sustainability. You know, a bank has to offer for banking. It has to make itself available to provide financial literacy to the communities that it serves. There are just things, you know, that the ethics and the transparency of a bank by regulation are always there, right? So,
you know, sustainability and ESG or however you want to call it, not to get involved into the three infamous letters. It's a topic that it's very natural for banks, right? However, like I was saying, when our CEO Jerry Plush joined, he has just a very, very strong mandate to do something that is very simple and it's the right thing. And that is, you know, that's the motto that we've used.
We want to do what is right and we want to be leaders. We don't want to be followers. So, you know in order for us to be sustainable in our operations we feel that we need to have a program that highlights, you know, these areas. The environment, the social contribution, the governance of our business and so that's, you know, that's our main goal. I think that he was very clear from day one
Laura Rossi (10:34.792)
the right thing and what you know being sustainable is going to take us to do the right thing and if we want to attract the right talent we need to do what is right and to be sustainable because nowadays people want to work for companies that are on the path of contribution and making a positive impact. So
Mike Smith (10:57.014)
I love that. You know, it's very clear from your branding on your website that you talk about how important being a community bank is. You're a large community bank. You have 26 locations, right? You know, so you're a significant community bank, but you still are very heavy into the word community. The way you talk about it, it's clear that is a motivating force for you all.
Laura Rossi (11:06.923)
Laura Rossi (11:19.666)
Yeah, we have branches, 17 here in South Florida, six in the Houston area. We are also very focused now in growing the market in Tampa and also continuing to grow here in South Florida. So yes, it is definitely, it is very important for us to not just have centers and
Laura Rossi (11:49.58)
to be able to contribute in all the senses. So definitely.
Mike Smith (11:54.054)
I love it. One thing that you mentioned there was you were talking about how like this is important, you thought for like a talent attraction and retention. You know, you're now a couple of years into this journey. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about like early successes, things that you've learned along the way in that path.
Laura Rossi (12:13.31)
In the talent retention, it's specifically, I guess, it is difficult to measure right away. I think that's something that comes more in the long term of the company, but you do see a shift these days when you're doing recruiting, that especially the younger generations, they ask about these things. They ask what our values are. They ask what it's important and relevant for us
contribution, what we're doing for climate. These things are things and topics that are coming up during interviews because younger generations do want to contribute and make sure that they're giving their time and their skills and their effort to companies that are going to make an impact. And they're very aligned with that. We also have an internship program with the university, with different local universities here.
And you see also from interacting with these young individuals that they want to be with a company that they feel proud about. So when you have programs like this that give priority to diversity, to inclusion, to climate resilience, to social lending, environmental lending, you see that you are able to attract
younger individuals or just individuals in general who are aligned with these goals and your talent pool grows. So that is why we see that doing the right thing and having an impact program is not only beneficial because it is ensuring our success but it really becomes a highlight or almost like a benefit of Ameren that becomes part of the package of those individuals that
Laura Rossi (14:17.637)
that internship program, it's one of the successes we've had. That's one that comes to mind.
Mike Smith (14:26.107)
That's awesome. How about on the other side of the equation? I'm sure it's not all sunshine and roses, right? Like you're a fairly large organization. There's a lot of different personalities and people. Have you had any internal resistance to this?
Laura Rossi (14:43.27)
Yeah, definitely. I would say as I shared earlier in the process, it was not easy to transition from...
individuals that were self-motivated and had a natural passion for these topics, to getting people to do it because it's part of their job and part of their role. For people to really see how sustainability fits into their everyday roles, it's not easy. It takes motivation, it definitely takes for the message to be consistent and coming from top to bottom, and in that I think we were
very successful. We had a gathering at some point where the C-suite met. It was pretty much our CEO and all directs of the CEO and each one of those individuals was given responsibilities and they were they are still to date under the governance of the program. They're called initiative owners. They own them and they're responsible for driving those initiatives. So even though
Laura Rossi (15:54.468)
like the individual executors of those initiatives. When you have a mandate from the top, from the CEO saying that this is important, in fact, from making it one of the seven strategic objectives of the company, our seventh objective, which you can find in many of the earnings goals or investor presentations that we put out, the number seven says, embedding ESG into our DNA. And when you have that mandate,
and you have the C-suite being responsible for those things that permeates throughout the organization. So yes, that was a challenge, but one that we were able to tackle and overcome, and I think that thanks to that, the program is rolling and is moving forward.
I would say one that I don't like to talk about a lot, but it's definitely in our market. And it's the fact that we are in two states, Florida and Texas, who have.
politicize this topic a lot, right? And anyone knows that both of the governments of these states have been very vocal about ESG. And we just don't feel that ESG needs to be about politics. We just feel that it should be. And that's why I try to use the word sustainability, because it's not just those three letters and this woke movement. It's again, going back to the basics, doing the right thing,
do what is best for your communities and to have a positive impact.
Mike Smith (17:33.778)
100%. It sounds like you all have very capable leadership in order to kind of, you have a few headwinds coming from outside the organization, but it sounds like the messaging was really strong internally and that helped to bring a lot of buy into it. How about the other direction? Maybe how have, you know, your primary roles in investor relations, how have investors responded to this direction?
Laura Rossi (17:39.982)
Laura Rossi (17:48.971)
Laura Rossi (17:56.234)
Laura Rossi (18:02.354)
That's a good question. And so you see a mix, honestly. You see that there are investors that are not yet paying that much attention. You know, they obviously say it's good that you do this because there is nothing wrong with wanting to make an impact on a contribution, but they don't necessarily pay attention to it. However, there are some, and I would say the larger investors,
Laura Rossi (18:33.208)
I don't want to name anyone in specific, but the larger investors, institutional investors, I would say those are taking this very seriously and they have committees around this and whole units dedicated to making sure that the companies that they're investing in are really doing what they're expected to do. And they, again, going back to the frameworks and the ratings and all of that, it is not
an easy road to walk on because everyone looks at their own thing, everyone is using different frameworks, everyone is using different guidelines to measure. But at the end at least you have teams being dedicated to this. I have to say that one of the most technical meetings that we've had was or technical questions that we had during a meeting with an investor were about sustainability.
And, you know, they were very pleased that we were able to answer them and give them straight answers because they really wanted to see that we had a program that was not just greenwashing, you know, that it was something serious, that we were committed, that there was a rationale behind the changes that we were writing on our report about. And so, yes, you do see that the larger investors are taking this seriously and do want to
to have companies respond. There is no regulation yet that also makes it a little difficult because since there is nothing that you have to comply or that you have to report on, everyone gives different information so it is not an easy task for these investors to evaluate companies but I'm hoping sometime soon something more specific comes.
to us and we can provide better data and be more, play more on a level field.
Mike Smith (20:40.838)
It sounds like, it sounds very, one of the things that we work on here at Acclimate is about like trying to make the climate a less confusing topic, but even still, like there is definitely confusion that's gonna happen outside of like the services that like we provide you at Acclimate. It sounds like there's a lot of challenges, like this isn't necessarily your background either, like you're having to learn this as you go.
Laura Rossi (21:04.29)
Mike Smith (21:07.026)
You're a professional, you're going to do a good job because that's who you are as a professional. But maybe you could tell me a little bit more about your own motivations, your own ethics. Why you feel compelled to do the job that you're doing on this.
Laura Rossi (21:20.371)
And so I'm going to move into that, but I wanted to say something because before when you asked about the challenges, I do have to agree with what you just said. One of the challenges that when I took on the program, I noticed was the fact that we had some goals related to net zero, to reducing emissions. However, we are a bank, not necessarily emission accountants, right?
And so that is something that was a challenge for us because we were trying to look for all sorts of spreadsheets and calculations in order to really even understand where our missions were. And I do wanna like co-acclimate to the table because it was extremely, extremely easy to work with you guys and to have you be an ally. And you came as a concierge service,
pretty much taken all the data that we needed to provide and create a dashboard that shows us where we are and even move over to do the offsets and to get to those goals. And even like I remember that from our conversations, I was able to reevaluate the way those goals were written so that they made more sense.
Laura Rossi (22:51.456)
in the climate sector, I bet they're facing. And it is through companies like Acclimate that they can tackle that challenge and that climate can become a very tangible goal of theirs. They can easily visualize where they are at and then place targets or goals to offset whatever their desire may be.
So, you know, that I just wanted to mention it because it's, it's definitely.
Mike Smith (23:23.994)
That's really kind of you, Laura. And I have to say that I can speak for the whole team. We've learned a lot from working with you as well. And so I appreciate the compliment, but the feeling's very mutual here. We've really enjoyed the relationship and I'm pleased to know you as a person too. So to that end, tell me more about you.
Laura Rossi (23:42.178)
Thank you. And yeah, I'll move over to the question that you asked about, you know, the ethics. And for me, for me it's also been very, like a very natural thing to do. I have to say anyone who knows me knows that I am someone who is very structured in my ways and in my work.
I am a person of method. I also have a very strong mandate. This is at the core of my personality of doing what is expected of me and really doing the right thing and delivering on my word. So when I was thinking about this question, I was just thinking that for me, just more than doing your job and doing it well,
I cannot be working with a program that is not going anywhere. Right? So I needed to feel right away when I joined that this was something that I could take ownership of and that I had a way to monitor and to feel that it was consistent, that we were not putting some targets and goals out there just to have a goal, but that everything was aligned.
We had, if you see the way we're structured, we have five pillars, and then those five pillars are being worked on by trying to reach 13 metrics. And those 13 metrics have 26 initiatives that are driving those metrics, and for those, we've made commitments. So, you know, like in my personal ethics, I could not be the head of sustainability
that was not going anywhere, right? And I just need to feel that we are being true to ourselves, that we're putting commitments out there that we need to be able to reach. And if there is something in the way, like I'm very pro adjusting if needed, right? Just with transparency and being able to explain why we decided to shift here or there. But I just, you know,
Laura Rossi (26:08.48)
It is a mandate of mine to be able to have things working, that the work is going towards a goal, that it's consistent with what we say. It's just, for me, the sustainability program was a lot about putting my seed into it and making sure that it was moving in the right direction.
Mike Smith (26:38.618)
Why do you think you're like that? Like what about your background causes you to be like, I can't do this halfway, I've gotta like throw my heart and soul into this.
Laura Rossi (26:51.422)
You know, I think a lot about that because I would like to pass that on to my kids. It is the one trait that I say that and my discipline and organization skills is definitely something that has been a gift to me and I work at keeping them very, you know, I work on it very hard.
But I would say it's definitely gotta be a combination of personality because you have to have the personality. It helps to be someone who likes method, who is organized by nature. There's just some traits of the personality that help.
But I would have to go back to my parents and my school. I mean, the way that I was raised, my dad and my mom, they're both very disciplined individuals. My dad is a cardiologist and academics and ethics and discipline and organization. We're always at the core of our family. And my mom,
she has a more easygoing personality. She's extremely driven and organized as well in her own way but extremely driven and so I think that I just
had that around me and then I went to a school, same school since I was in Kinder up to high school and this school was also an environment where discipline was promoted and encouraged and taught. So I would say that's where this comes from.
Mike Smith (28:43.202)
I got a little emotional when you started talking about your kids. I started thinking about my own as well and about like how that's like something I would like to pass on to them as well is about like how discipline and service to others is important. And yeah, so I think we share that value there.
Laura Rossi (29:01.385)
Mike Smith (29:02.158)
Maybe we could talk a little bit more about climate specifically and about not in this, I mean, definitely how it relates to your own life in Amherst, but like also just more broadly, like, um, you know, what do you find exciting about working in the climate space?
Laura Rossi (29:20.738)
This may sound funny, but I think the one part that I find exciting about it is that it's a topic that.
Either we do something about it or the implications are going to be extremely chaotic. So for me, what is exciting is being able to contribute, right? To be part of the process, to make it to wherever we need to make it so that we find a solution. I think that this is no longer a choice. Climate, it's something that requires action.
Even though I would not consider myself a climate geek, or you would not, like any of my friends or people who know me closely, they would not necessarily say that I am the one that is out in the streets, you know, with holding banners or anything about climate change. I just feel that what is exciting about this stage or this time that we're living is the fact
that we need to find the solution and that we need to start acting. This morning I was reading something about how in order for us to reach the global net zero goals by 2050, there is really, really a hard line on 2030. That if by 2030 we're not able to make certain changes, there is no way we're reaching the goals of temperature rising by 2050.
Laura Rossi (31:00.304)
decision or a future action for future generations. It has to happen now and it has to be, it's in our hands. So that is the one thing that I find exciting, being able to be part of that group that is driving the change.
Mike Smith (31:15.97)
Yeah, we all have our part to do. We don't have to like, you know, barricade the streets. But it is very much, it's something that we all need to contribute to. So I love that you came to that. But it also sounds like there's some worry there. Like, I mean, like our backs are against a metaphorical wall here. You know, like, tell me about your feelings about that side of the equation.
Laura Rossi (31:28.235)
Laura Rossi (31:33.646)
Laura Rossi (31:37.374)
Yeah, and so I would say that side of the equation is just the opposite, that just as we are the ones that need to contribute, my fear is that it may already be too late, right? It is the, without being a climate geek, just as a normal person, as a resident of this world, it really scares me that it may be too late or that we may not be able to turn this Titanic ship around.
I would say that's it, that the damage has already been too great.
Mike Smith (32:12.122)
Have you started working in climate? How have your feelings evolved? Have you become more anxious and more nervous, more hopeful, a little bit of both? What's your climate journey been like?
Laura Rossi (32:25.614)
To be honest, right now I'm still more of on a standby trying to watch where this is going because of what I mentioned before around the politics of it. I see that there are these great initiatives and these great conferences and spaces of global leaders taking place, but then you don't necessarily see that the result or the
those meetings is straightforward and factual and enforceable, at least not enough. You know, it's like there is a lot of discussion, but there is still need to be more of a requirement or call to action.
So I wouldn't say it has evolved that much. It's also been relatively short, the period that I've been working closely together with, you know, this program. But I really hope that it becomes more positive. I think, and you have not asked me about this, but I would bring it out now, regulation, the fact that regulators are talking about this
I know that for many people it's a burden, but I rather, I'm the type of person that I rather like, I rather have the law written and clear than to be guessing, you know, how to do things and how to go about climate. So if the regulators get to make a clear guideline and enforce it, I just think companies are going to have an easier path forward as to what they need to do.
So hopefully that puts me in a more positive place where you ask the question next.
Mike Smith (34:26.006)
Yeah, I think that's a point that I didn't fully appreciate as much. And I think a lot of people don't as well, which is that the idea of that like regulation can sometimes be a burden, but a lot of times it's also it brings clarity and relief. And that's a, go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's, I don't think that's, I don't think that's a common feeling about people, but when there's so much.
Laura Rossi (34:41.898)
Yeah, I mean, you could go that way. No, no, that I said that way.
Mike Smith (34:56.206)
Back to your earlier point there, is that people have politicized ESG as a concept, but the reason that your organization and others like yours have gone into this is it's about risk control and it's about dealing with the community. And those things are money winners for you, they're positives. But you have so many different reporting standards for people that are trying to evaluate these risks and trying to see how you are as a community member.
Laura Rossi (35:10.096)
Mike Smith (35:21.954)
from an investment side, from working as an employee side, that all that confusion, it must bring a lot of stress to you.
Laura Rossi (35:31.999)
Yeah, it does. I agree 100%.
Mike Smith (35:35.694)
Um, in a larger sense, um, so investor relations, all of it, if you had 10 times the budget, uh, for your, uh, for your programs and your work areas, like what would you spend it on?
Laura Rossi (35:53.187)
I think that I would have spend it within my span of control, the sustainability especially. I would have spend it in education.
Because, and when I say education, I say education about all sorts of topics that are relevant for a company to be sustainable, for the banking industry to be sustainable. I think I would fund programs to educate our communities.
education regarding climate, education regarding financial planning. I just think that without education you can give people many, many things but they won't last. You know, for sustainability to take place people have to be educated. So I think that that's what I would do. Just have a very strong program to educate our communities in the different topics that are going to make these things sustainable.
Mike Smith (36:56.902)
That really highlights to me earlier when you were talking, the thought occurred to me about like how important community banks are in the relationship between institutional capital and like the local community. And to me that like just speaks again to like the role that community banks really play in that ecosystem. So that drove the point home for me, thank you. What's a status quo that you reject?
Laura Rossi (37:23.454)
So this was a question that made me think quite a bit. And I would say that I reject a status quo in its nature by itself. Yes.
Mike Smith (37:27.885)
Mike Smith (37:37.229)
the very concept of a status quo. Okay.
Laura Rossi (37:39.77)
Yes, I am someone who needs to feel that I'm evolving, that work is being done, that goals are being reached, you know, that a project...
Commences and finishes. You know, I don't like procrastination. So if there is one thing that I reject with all of my heart And I have a very hard time doing is procrastinating so
Mike Smith (38:11.562)
Okay, I love it. The challenge, the existence of the very question itself, which I love. That's really fun. Well, you're a pretty driven gal. How do you maintain any semblance of a work-life balance with that?
Laura Rossi (38:18.05)
We're going to have to go.
Laura Rossi (38:28.526)
Okay, I have to say it's very difficult. It is very difficult. And I would think back to pre-pandemic times. And I do remember feeling that there wasn't enough time to do it all, at least not to do it like I wanted to do it, right? You know, I wanted to be, I wanted to excel as a mom. I wanted to excel as a wife. I wanted to excel at work. I wanted to excel as a friend, right? And it almost feels, or it almost felt
a rat race because there was just not enough time and there was not enough you. But I would have to say that this is the one thing that I can rescue from the pandemic to be a net positive. I think that the fact that the world realized that remote work could be done and it could work and people could be efficient and I definitely say it's not for everyone,
every personality and not every type of job but if you like in my case the my role and the way that I work and my personality really I work well in that environment again because of what we discussed I am very organized very self-driven and I don't really need you know much outside a span of control to get things done so I think that I think that has helped me a lot to reach some
balance. I feel that by being able to schedule myself and visualize my week and be at the place that is most convenient so that I give priority to this thing that is not unlimited which is time. And so, you know, the days that I need to be closer to either home or school because I have things in that area, I, you know, I stay and work remote. I am super efficient in my work, but I also use the time better, not spending in commuting.
or trying to reach different places around town. And then the days that I need to be here in the office because I have in-person meetings, because I need to interact, because I need that personal touch and feedback, then I am here. So I would definitely link my balance, work and life balance today to the fact that we're
Laura Rossi (40:58.2)
Mike Smith (40:59.962)
Got it. Yeah, the challenges of being a working parent are significant and it sounds like you carry it off well. It's not something I always do particularly well. So I'm glad you're able to achieve some balance there.
Mike Smith (43:40.274)
So, well, just to wrap up here then. So this has been an interview with Laura Rossi, the Senior Vice President for Investor Relations and wearing also the hat of sustainability for Amara Bank, the leading community bank for South Florida and the Houston area. We direct you all to their website if you'd like to learn more. And if you're looking for a bank, strongly consider them. Laura, I've really enjoyed speaking with you. I...
Laura Rossi (44:05.521)
Mike Smith (44:07.462)
I've really enjoyed knowing you, and I really enjoy working with Amaranth. So thank you for taking the time today.
Laura Rossi (44:12.082)
No, you're very welcome. We enjoy talking to you always. We always learn something from your experience and your knowledge in this area. And we're very happy to work with Acclimate as a partner. So thank you so much. Thanks.