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In this episode of The Climate Dad, Mike Smith interviews Corey Clark, the Director of Events and Experiences for Honeycomb Strategies. They discuss the unexpected sustainability aspects of conferences and the significant impact that small decisions can have on the environment. Corey shares insights on how to create comprehensive sustainability strategies for events, and the importance of education and communication in promoting sustainable practices. The conversation emphasizes the role of B Corp certification in promoting ethical and responsible business practices and the need for businesses to be a force for good.
In this week's Small Waves segment, Julie Schneiderman shares ways to overcome holiday disconnection by connecting with nature. She suggests planting something symbolic to connect with the earth, turning small acts into meaningful holiday traditions.
00:00 Introduction to Sustainability in Events
10:31 Educating Clients on Sustainable Choices
15:41 Understanding Travel Impact on Carbon Footprint
20:59 Corey's Journey in Sustainability Consulting
27:14 Formative Experiences and Environmental Awareness
32:27 Challenges in Travel and Carbon Footprint
41:51 The Profitability of Doing Good
47:21 Small Waves
Mike Smith (00:17)
Welcome to episode 16 of The Climate Dad, the environmental podcast where we talk about and explain the news and science of climate change. I'm your host, Mike Smith, a father of two great kids and the founder of Aclymate the climate solution where we help businesses without sustainability teams to measure, reduce, report, and offset their footprint, all without having to become a climate expert and with our expert guidance at Net Zero Software. Today, we're going to be talking today with Corey Clark about the surprising sustainability details in conferences.
and her leadership within the B Corp community. Did you know that carpet color can prevent tons of waste? Fun little factoids there. But first, let's start with your climate minute.
Alright, let's start in Japan. Mount Fuji, one of the country's most iconic landmarks, has just experienced its longest ever snow-free period. Scientists point to rising global temperatures as a key factor, raising concerns about the ripple effects on Japan's ecosystem and its water resources. On a more hopeful note, progress is happening in green technology and policy. The U.S. has allocated $6 billion to decarbonize heavy industries like steel and cement. The sector is responsible for a quarter of the nation's emissions.
And in the private sector, some of the world's largest copper producers announced plans to achieve net zero emissions by 2050, signaling shifts in traditionally high emission industries. Globally, a new study estimates that reforesting an area the size of Mexico could offset 23.4 gigatons of carbon over three decades. As a forestry guy, this is clearly important to me. And it underscores the potential of nature-based solutions in combating climate change, alongside technology and policy efforts.
A new study in the Journal of Environmental Psychology illustrates that the terminology used to describe climate change doesn't really actually matter much in its outcomes. Goldwerth et al. illustrates that there's statistically no significant impact on the willingness of a listener to engage on climate after hearing different terms ranging from carbon pollution to greenhouse gases to even global boiling. It appears that climate change, whatever the label, is already pretty well baked into our collective consciousnesses.
Separately, communications between scientists and policy makers seems to be pretty terrible. According to a recently published survey in Nature of science policy experts, 80 % of policymakers don't understand science, and 7 in 10 said that governments are routinely not using science advice. That isn't particularly surprising for anyone that follows government, but perhaps a little more surprisingly, the survey also said that 73 % of researchers don't understand policy.
we clearly need to do a better job at bridging that divide.
While emissions from many major industrialized countries are decreasing, according to research from Climate Action Tracker, the emissions associated with fossil fuels being exported from any of these countries are significantly increasing. In the period from 2010 to 2022, for example, Australia saw its exported emissions increased by 40%, Canada by 52%, and the US by a whopping
eye-popping 216%. For example, were these emissions to be included on the US emissions balance sheet, it would more than negate the emissions reductions that have occurred during the same period and is approximately equivalent to the emissions reductions associated with the landmark 2022 climate bill called the IRA. Not good. Finally, a small but true factoid. If you were to take all the waste associated with solar panels needed to achieve our net zero goals,
through now and into the future, it would be the equivalent mass of just one month's worth of coal ash being produced globally. Coal ash is toxic and a major pollutant. And solar panels, they're mostly recyclable. So worth keeping that into context as people talk about policy and the costs of renewable energy. And with that, that was your Climate Minute.
Let's talk quickly about Aclymate. If you're thinking about the ways to improve your company's impact on the planet, or maybe your company is just being required to report its footprint, we'd love to help you over here at Aclymate. We have the easiest, the most intuitive climate solution for your business. We'll get you a baseline environmental assessment, show you ways to reduce your carbon footprint, and we're going to get you on the path to net zero. It will help your environmental branding. It'll win you new customers and keep your most valuable ones.
and it will attract and retain the talent you need from the climate generation. Our green business certification program is going to help you complete sustainability audits. Maybe you're just looking to improve those EcoVadis scores or to win other certifications like CDP, B Corp, or the Green Business Benchmark Or maybe you're just looking to purchase carbon offsets, but really just need a reliable carbon broker. Come talk to us at Aclymate We've got you covered with both a friendly climate accounting solution,
and also the best carbon offset programs and a leading selection of sustainable projects.
Now let's get to today's interview. It's fast paced, so listen up because it has a ton of interesting facts that you wouldn't guess. Make sure to listen here as Corey Clark teaches us all about the hidden ways events can be more sustainable.
Mike Smith (05:44)
All right, I'm happy to be joined today on The Climate Dad by my friend, Corey Clark. She and I've been working together on quite a few projects and I'm really happy to have her in my corner here at Aclymate. Corey's the director of events and experiences for Honeycomb Strategies. You can go see the work that they do at hcsustainability.com. Again, that's hcsustainability.com. But in broad context, Honeycomb Strategies helps...
Events and event places become far more efficient when it comes to their sustainability goals. I've learned a lot from Corey. think you will too. Corey, thanks for joining us today on The Climate Dad.
Corey (06:20)
Yeah, thanks for your time.
Mike Smith (06:23)
Yeah, so tell us about yourself, Corey. Told you the title, but tell the listeners what it is that you actually do on a day-to-day basis.
Corey (06:32)
So Honeycomb Strategies has two parts. I run the events and trade shows and conferences. other half of Honeycomb Strategies does sustainable waste strategies for sports teams and venues. Within the event space, we've all been to conferences, we've all been to trade shows, we've seen trash bins and recycling bins that when you look inside, they look very similar. You don't know which one's trash and which one's recycling. We've walked on the carpets that's used for four days before being thrown away or recycled.
So what we do is go in and work with these conferences and trade shows and help them build a comprehensive sustainability strategy from the beginning. What materials and substrates are they using? How are they interacting with vendors and suppliers to make sure they're making impactful decisions? And when we talk about sustainability, it's not just wastewater and energy, like that's the environmental side of it. But conferences have a great impact on the about of their, wherever they're having their facility. So if the conferences in like
San Francisco for say, can we build hygiene kits for people in need there? Or if they're in Orlando, we know that there's a lot of large oceanic events that happen there. Like, do we need to help building sandbags? Like, what is that? So we build both comprehensive environmental strategies as well as social impact strategies for trade shows and conferences.
Mike Smith (07:48)
love it. And one of things I hear out of that is, that, and this is something I've learned in attending a trade show with you is, is that like, conferences both have like a negative footprint that needs to be controlled and minimized, but they also have a positive footprint about like a way that they can change the impact on the world around them. You know, could you explain that more to me?
Corey (08:08)
Yeah, I mean, every decision that an event makes really can impact. Think about aisle carpet. A show can choose to have aisle carpet or not. If they're not having aisle carpet, they are saving like a mass amount of resources. If they're putting white aisle carpet down, it is used once and then trashed. Or if they're using carpet mill that actually recycles it, but still it's used once. Like we have had clients that put padding and carpet over padding and carpet because they don't like the color of it.
and it doesn't work with the theme of things. So there are decisions that an event can make that really do impact the outcome, like the waste stream. We think about like KPIs and some KPIs directly affect their carbon emissions, like their waste diversion rate and what's going landfill, compost, donation, recycling. And then there's KPIs we track, like what kind of carpet are you using? What kind of substrate are you printing on? And those also really impact like the actual outcome of the event from like a
and impact resource standard. We all love Schwag, but if you think about the life cycle of a Schwag and Honeycomb Strategies, there's really great graphic about it. It's primarily made out of plastic. It's primarily meant to be single use. They are normally made in China. So it's made from plastic, wrapped in a little poly bag, put in a box, wrapped in a poly bag, put in a box, put on a pallet, wrapped in plastic, shipped over to wherever the conference is.
everything is unwrapped and trashed. Sometimes boxes are then put empty on a pallet, pallet wrapped, saved in case there's extras, and then the whole thing happens over again. So if we had a conference, then we reduce the amount of swag that we're asking exhibitors to bring, or we're asking them to really look at what is the end of life use for that thing. Can it compost? Can it be recycled? Can it come and not in a poly bag?
These very small decisions over the course of one event that happens in one city over the entire country really can make an impact. I mean, we're talking about like tons and tons of waste, roll off after roll off of carpet every single weekend and every single city.
Mike Smith (10:09)
That's incredible. And so it makes sense to me when you talk about like that you both help the facilities that where the events are being held and then also the events themselves because like there's a lot of kind of overlapping decision making that happens within that. You know, as you talk about that, it makes me think about like the color of the carpet is not something that most people think about it. It's like, this is going to have a sustainability decision. Like I would prefer.
Corey (10:28)
you
Mike Smith (10:31)
How do you do that? How do you get in with an event early enough that the people that are designing the experience themselves are really thinking about sustainability along every step of the way and know where those pitfalls are?
Corey (10:45)
It's easier to educate the clients first because they make the direct impact like they're making the choices. And then we normally do it as if you ever see the carpet that has a little black specks in it, the little gray specks in it, that's recycled carpet for the most part. So if we can get the trade show at the conference to trade out all their carpet to that recycled carpet, that's step one. We try to get on webinars with the other exhibitors and the general services contractor. So GSCs and EACs, those are the people who really build the booths.
and their marketing managers and tell them, like, we work with a lot of medical associations, and that's a very stark, white, clean look. So when we're, when we're, we try to get in front of them at a webinar and educate them. And a lot of times they don't know. I mean, once they find out, like, if I have a custom cut carpet, so think about like, you walk into a booth, and it's white, but where you're supposed to walk is a swish of red. That's used once.
light color carpet is used once, premium carpet is used once. And as long, once we educate them on that, they normally say, I didn't know, now I can make a better decision. We also go on site. So we talked with almost every exhibitor that shows some interest in sustainability. We do a lot of surveys with exhibitors and we chat with them of like, did you bring single use plastic water bottles? What made you make that decision? Like what about getting a bubbler and getting your team reusable vessels or.
You chose white carpet. Did you know that this is going to be used once? And it's just education. And once they understand that, we've had them come back and say, I made a better carpeting decision, or we're about to remake our booth. And now I know to ask our booth builder about reusable materials. Or can I use this for my 10 by 10, but also expand this and use it from when we have a larger footprint so some of the build is used more than once throughout the course of the year.
Or can I make more wood choices that are FSC certified and not like virgin wood? like, you know, they're really starting to think about how do I do this better? Because they also want to tell that story. We have some clients that give, you know, where your booth is on the show floor is incredibly important. So we have some clients that give like priority points to those booths that do have a sustainability bill to them, or they have chosen to not give out swag and they're doing donations instead, or we've seen some kind of.
action behavioral change within them year over year, they get points for a better placement on the floor. So it is a little bit of an ask as well as reward system. And it does take time. It's like, you know, over the course of three years, we're having these conversations before sometimes they really click and then you see a large amount of impact change. people don't know these things until you tell them.
Mike Smith (13:14)
going to ask about that, incentive structure of how do you, because you're dealing directly with your clients who are hosting these events and then there's all these other stakeholders, the exhibitors, et cetera. So the
really think that's fascinating, like the fact that some of these organizers are using a point system in order for, you want that sweet spot, you're gonna have to clean up your act a little bit. Are there other examples of ways that they can incent the right behavior from attendees, exhibitors, general service contractors, et cetera, that you've experienced?
Corey (13:32)
Mm-hmm.
You have some events if you take public transit and you show your public transit receipt, you're entered into gift cards or like comp entries for the following year, which is really beneficial if it's an expensive registration for the booth badge. For on the exhibitor side, if we do a sustainability survey or a sustainability pledge and ask the exhibitors to do X, Y, Z, a lot of times their logo will be on a sliding deck. So keynote speakers and the hold slides where everyone's waiting to file in.
those exhibitors have their logo up and like these are all sustainable exhibitors and like we want to thank you for following us on the sustainability journey type of thing. There's like fun ways to also incentivize attendees. Surprise and delight. So if you see someone recycling correctly or if you see someone filling up their water bottle, if you see someone like that has their own silverware at lunch, we do surprise and delight and give them rewards of some sort. Normally whatever.
is impactful for the industry. Every industry kind of has its own niche and has its own definition of value of things. But we try to surprise the light attendees as well, just like reward them for what they're doing well.
Mike Smith (14:48)
There's some interesting stuff going on there.
Okay, so what I hear from that is that you don't really like to do shame. Like it's not about like showing who's doing poorly. What really in your experience works really well is to talk about how somebody is doing well and to incent a good behavior rather than to punish a bad behavior. Am I correct in hearing that?
Corey (15:07)
yeah, we want sustainability to be fun. Not an extra thing you have to check off the list if you're the one in charge of it. Not a negative thing where we don't want an attendee to come and say, I used to get so much cool swag and now I get nothing. We just need to change the type of swag that they're giving or giving less of it or find something that's impactful for that attendee and maybe allow them to donate the $10 or the $5 that the exhibitor would have paid.
Mike Smith (15:13)
Thanks.
Corey (15:35)
for the swag instead. So there are other ways of incentivizing that not taking away of something is just changing something.
Mike Smith (15:41)
Yeah, nobody wants to be a nag. And at the end of the day also, like, you have to work with human nature rather than work against it, you know? So I love that. That's definitely something we do at Aclymate is just try to just educate people about like what the impacts of some of their decisions are and help to inform them to make better decisions. And we really do try to talk about that with our clients as well about like, this is not too...
This is not so you go and yell at somebody. This is so you can highlight the person that's doing the right thing. And in our personal experience, you know, we do that here at Aclymate. I've seen my employees just start making different decisions just by being kind of in that culture of sustainability more broadly without even really saying like, you should consider doing something else.
Corey (16:24)
Yeah, you and I talked a lot about travel impact of an event. And you had said to me, talked about the importance of a direct flight and that most of the admissions for flying comes when an airline is taking off. And so when we go back to talk to our clients and they, if they choose like, you know, a B level venue that doesn't have a lot of direct flights, I talk with them about the carbon footprint that they're creating because of that.
So let's say, you know, they're in New York one year, a lot of direct flights, San Francisco, a lot of direct flights, Indianapolis, maybe not a lot of direct flights. And so I have to let them know when we look at your carbon footprint year over year, when you're in these smaller cities, still large, but smaller cities, that may take two flights, your emissions from your travel is going to go up. And these are things that people don't know and they don't necessarily think about,
They're thinking about how much is this going to cost me to put on? Is there like union labor that I'm going to have to deal with? Am I going to be forced to pay XYZ fee? But for a client that's really hyper-focused on their carbon footprint, there are a lot of other things that you need to think about. You and I have also talked about energy. So your energy usage could be the same at one city as it is in the other, but the energy grid of where that venue is, is very, very different.
And that's going to change the carbon footprint for energy use at an event as well. again, like things that event directors don't necessarily think about and RFPs and venue decisions are made so many years out. Like now they're starting to look at these things for 2032, 2030, like a couple of years out, but now they're educated about, all right, I need to think not just about what is it going to cost me as far as like monetary costs, but what is it going to cost me in my carbon budget?
Mike Smith (18:04)
Yep. That was something that was very educational to me and working with you and the broader team at Honeycomb is the idea that certain organizations are already having carbon budgets for their employees. People can own, so there's increasing virtual events, cetera. But to talk about working within the construct of human nature and the way that business is done.
is the idea that like conferences can also be kind of a force for good. You can actually reduce flights if you have a way to kind of get everybody together in one spot.
Corey (18:36)
Yeah, we had a client that was just in Chicago. Chicago to the airport, either airport, is far. I mean, it's like 40 minutes with no traffic. But when is there no traffic in Chicago? So really, it's like 60 minutes. So they actually, for the first time, had a shuttle bus. it was $40, which is cheaper than the ride share, which was $65. But people signed up to take
the shuttle from the venue, which is McCormick Place, to the airport. And they had huge success. They actually had to get second buses for some of the hours that had a high amount of people wanting to take the shuttles. And that's like a conscious decision on the event director's part to help reduce the carbon emissions by everyone just getting in a ride share by themselves.
I know when I'm going to the airport, I normally look around and see anyone else has a luggage and I always ask, does anyone want to share a ride to the airport? And almost everyone says yes. Like only once could I find no one. And like it's a good conversation starter. You're going to meet someone new. You're probably both there for the same conference. So I've had some interesting conversations, but there are things that an exhibitor or an event director can do to help reduce that travel. We've also had clients that had a bus from the airport.
And then they just basically drop off at the hotel. So you get your badge. This one was in Ohio. So we got our badges and we got a local beer and a local candy. And then everyone got on the bus and they dropped us off at like the normal ride shuttle. There was like five hotels. And so they had dropped off to all five hotels rather than everyone taking a ride by themselves or a taxi by themselves to their hotel. So there's definitely things that an event can do to minimize also making sure that
they are having their venue in a place that has public transportation.
Mike Smith (20:14)
I love that. I love it because it's a win-win, right? Which is that the event is helping people to get together rather than having them fly all over the country to meet onesies, twosies. I love the fact that it's a win for the event too because they're extending the experience and they're giving a better experience to the event attendees rather than having the hassle of sitting in traffic alone, trying to strike up an awkward conversation with your Uber driver. You're actually talking to the people that you came to talk to.
and you're learning and like the conference experiences there cheaper, better, love it all the way around. How long have you been doing this work, Corey? Like you're clearly a font of knowledge here. Every time I talk to you, I learned something new. That doesn't come easy, right?
Corey (20:58)
Yeah, roundabout way. I actually started my career in the outdoor industry. I worked for Clif Bar for years, just in event marketing. like when we sponsored marathons and triathlons and all those fun outdoor activities, those were my clients and I was the sponsor as far as the energy bar is concerned. But Clif Bar, environmental environment, like the people, planet purpose, like
Plano was part of our decision making in every single thing we did. we didn't go to an event that didn't have some type of a sustainability strategy. We didn't go to an event that had single-use plastic cups on course. And to me, that's just the way business should function. And that's how I started my professional career. From there, I worked with a hydration company that had the same kind of ethos, but I saw that there are a number of things that we could do better. So I was international partnerships.
nothing to do with sustainability. And I started like poking my nose and things that were not in my business. Like, why did we do this operational thing? We could reduce our packaging here. Why aren't we doing XYZ? I saw that this is something we could probably do. And they're like, you know what, we're going to hire a sustainability consultant. Why don't you work with her? And I'm like, yes.
That sounds amazing. So I started working with a sustainability consultant, like how to make our company internal operations a little bit more sustainable. And then because I had the experience in events that transferred over to our events. you know, changing out the cups we use, changing out like how we're getting to events, changing out what we're doing with the materials left over, changing out like the materials that we have to produce. And that's kind of what I do now. So that company sold, I started working for the consultancy.
not Honeycomb Strategies but it just kind of continued from there. You start learning like I was the client on a small scale event or a large scale marathon. And now I'm the consultant for these conferences because I've seen how they function. And I understand like, what is the give and take? Right. I can't tell people don't print banners because vinyl has no good end of use life when I know that's how the event makes their money and they need sponsors. So there has to be some kind of gift.
because I've been the sponsor. So I understand both sides of it. And now that's what we're doing.
Mike Smith (23:08)
And there's also this component of like, don't have to, you don't have to do everything all at once, right? Like there's always like sometimes as humans we think in a very kind of binary, you're either sustainable or you're not. Well, it's actually, there's a thousand degrees of gray in between black and white there. And you may not be particularly sustainable now, but can you be a little bit more this year? And then the year after that and the year after that, and just working with people where they're at.
and understanding that there will be cultural changes that will happen along the way. So you don't have to eat the whole elephant at once, just take a bite.
Corey (23:41)
Yeah, we talk a lot about bread problems. Let's talk about it this year. Let's do it next year. And in three years, it's mandatory. And in four years, there may be a fine. So we talk, but you got to get people in this mode of being like, OK, we talked about no plastic cups for the last two years. For reals, it's happening now. And then next year, we secretly audit people and say, can you please not bring these back next year? We're moving to a compostable. But you got to talk with people about it in order for them to be comfortable with it.
Mike Smith (23:51)
Yeah.
Corey (24:07)
Most of people, exhibitors, attendees of both sides have come to the same event for years and years and years. And shocker, they don't read anything you send them. So it's like, you know, multiple times that you have to tell them things, hey, we're changing this. This is why this is what we're doing. This is how we're asking you to get on our sustainability journey. But no way can you say we're doing this this year and expect it to go through the first year.
Mike Smith (24:32)
Gotcha. So in your own career, there's been kind of this journey. You always cared about sustainability, it sounds like a little bit, and you're an outdoors focused gal. You know, why? Why do care?
Corey (24:42)
Someone asked me the question the other day and I was like, I specifically remember I had a science teacher in elementary school. I grew up in California and she took us to like a beach cleanup and she was like super hippie. She taught us about recycling. She had like hair down past her butt, like super duper hippie. we went to a beach cleanup and my parents went and I just thought, A, why are people in my, I remember my brain like picking these things up. I'm like, this isn't a trash can. And my mom explained to me that like not all humans
do the right thing. And people do leave their trash everywhere. And to me, it was just like so wrong. But we played outside all the time. My mom was like, go play in the mud until dinner's ready. So to me, like outdoors was like a very clean place and not place that people and humans should leave their things. And so the science teacher taught us a lot about sustainability, like more on the environmental side and how it's affecting our oceans. Growing up in California, we see the stuff in the water and always just like
To me, we have choices to make and these decisions can really impact other people. And I don't feel that the negative decisions that a human makes should impact other people. So I always try to think about what's the end of use? What's the best option for this? Do I really need this item in this plastic packaging? Can I pay the 50 cents more in glass knowing it will be recycled, reused, better resources? Kind of just how I grew up and the people around me and...
There's like, I know you have a big connection with outdoors as well. And I think when we sit outdoors and realize how pretty it is, and then when we do that most of our lives and see how it's changing, the decisions we make are a little bit more impactful. Aspen Ski Company right now is showing a video of like in 50 years from now, like people sitting at a campsite at what was a ski area, like projecting of if we don't stop this, like climate change, we're not going to have a ski area. So looking back at
you know, where was there snow 20 years ago even. And now it's like, remember when that was a ski area? Every decision we make is going to impact us moving forward. Maybe not me, but like your kids, you know, the humans after me, trying to make the right decisions.
Mike Smith (26:47)
Yeah. No, I have a friend Julie Schneiderman with EcoStiks and she talks about like how little waves make big waves. And I really like that as a metaphor here. Like there are a lot of little decisions that every human makes throughout their life, throughout their day, you know, that can like can stack up and some of those decisions can go one way or the other, depending upon, you know, the small decisions that you're making.
You know, what's interesting to me is you were talking about that is that you had this formative experience when you were a girl. You know, how old were you when that happened? You know, this is The Climate Dad podcast. like as, yeah, so how old were you? You know, like fourth grade, fifth grade?
Corey (27:22)
Yeah, it was elementary school.
I don't know, you're the dad, how old are you in elementary school?
Mike Smith (27:30)
Take the grade, add five is the short rule of thumb. So fourth grade would be nine years old. Okay. What's interesting to me is that was a formative experience for me as well. So growing up in Idaho, I had an experience with a wildfire when I was nine and about like how that actually sent me down a course in my life that ultimately became really focused about the climate. And so I think it's an interesting thing about like how important it is to be,
Corey (27:33)
Yeah, nice.
Mike Smith (27:54)
sharing these experiences with children because like ultimately you're seeding for the the future generations not only the the experiences they're going to have with the world but also the people that are going to be leading the the future world as well so i've really loved like that little nine-year-old Corey was like wait what garbage beach that ain't right
Corey (28:16)
it a little bit more now. I was talking with a client and we were just like, why can't adult humans put the recycling in the recycling? know, like on the expo floor, like they know, well, most people know what banana peel is compostable. Like why can't they put it in the compost? she was saying she covered lunch duty at her kids' school and they're in third grade. And the third graders know how to put their compost in the compost and the recycling and the recycling. they think like,
Kids just grow up with it now in some cities and some communities that have that municipality waste system already built out. And hopefully, it gives me hope that these decisions will change because that's how kids are growing up versus very select few who had parents that cared and taught them or were educated enough to teach them a little bit more about what is the end of use for these things that were choosing their purchase.
Mike Smith (29:05)
Yeah, there's a bit of an acculturation that happens associated with that. I know in my own life, my wife, Lindsey, she grew up sorting and recycling. That was just what you did, right? And then she went away to school in Texas and was aghast at how many people just threw recyclables in the garbage, even though there was a recycling bin. In some cases and in other places, there was just like no option for recycling anywhere. And she was just like, what? So yeah, it's a...
It's a long process, but it is increasingly making change. And so that does give me a little bit of hope Speaking of that though, what does give you hope
Corey (29:42)
On the event side of things, event directors are less afraid to make changes lately. You we talked about like carpet. There's options, right? Food and beverage, there's also options. And so an event director can choose what these options are going to be for the exhibitors. And we have increasingly seen clients be like, well, we're just not going to offer plastic water bottles. well, people have two options, reusable.
or compostable serviceware. And we're just not gonna let catering give the other options. And so I see them making more bold moves where even two years ago, and I think there's a little bit coming off of COVID, they just wanted exhibitors and attendees to show up. And now we're past that fear and they're no longer afraid to take the bad options away. The venues and food and beverage, they still have options that are not the most environmentally friendly and event directors just aren't giving those options anymore.
Mike Smith (30:35)
love it. Are people complaining about it?
Corey (30:39)
No, that's the funniest part. Like it's not even, yeah. Like we have a lot, we have a number of, like I said, associations that are medical associations and things I learn when I actually get on site. Posters are a very big thing. So super smart people have these really great inventions or these really great scientific XYZs and they actually print a huge poster and laminate it. And then they tack it to like a, a false wall.
Mike Smith (30:43)
It's the right.
Corey (31:08)
And there's rows and rows and rows rows rows rows rows of these false walls for posters. And we're like, we need to stop printing these. And there are a lot of really great digital options for this. And we've had clients that said, no, no, no, no. We've asked our audiences that want that. And they finally do it. like crickets, very few people complained. They had more people say, this is great. I can share it with my colleagues or I can filter to see exactly what I want other than having to figure out on this printed out sheet what number is the one I want to go see.
So there's some hopeful things. Things definitely do change. And I think there's that fear of, I change this, the exhibitor's not going to come back. Or if I change this and I have a competing conference, the attendee is going to go to the other conference. More and more, we see is they appreciate, A, it's more technology-based. And they appreciate the upgrade in technology. B, appreciate that you're making less of an impact. But you need to explain to them why. So when you pull the carpet up and you no longer have aisle carpet, we try to make
signage, unfortunately, but it's Honeycomb, so it's recyclable saying, we aren't putting carpet aisling down and we're saving this many resources. But if you don't explain that and you just pull the aisle carpet up at your show, people are gonna think you're being cheap. And that's just how humans function. So like sometimes you have to explain why these things, these changes are happening a little bit more than you think you should. But once you explain it, they're like, okay, sounds great. I'm glad you're making these changes.
Mike Smith (32:27)
Yeah, my wife's a physician and I think they're so proud of it, you know, because they're all like scientists people. Like I think they had like the science fair. Like they were the kids that loved science fair. You know what I mean? And so she still has her poster in our basement. Like she just doesn't want to get rid of the thing. So I can see how. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's a better experience. Like we don't have to do the science fair vibe anymore.
Corey (32:43)
There you go. That's what all of our clients are saying, like, it's so important. It's so important, digital.
Mike Smith (32:53)
Okay, what's the flip side of that? What gives you, you know, still a headache and giving you some anxiety? Like we're not making progress as fast as we should on this, you think?
Corey (33:02)
Travel is just still a sticking point. 80 plus percent of any carbon footprint for a show is going to be travel. And there are some industries that think carbon offsets are a hoax. You and I have talked about this. You helped us talk with our clients about this. And I think that offsets are tool amongst many that a conference can choose to bring forward or not.
there are always opportunities to reduce the carbon footprint. And Honeycomb Strategies and I find value in carbon offsets. You also have to think about if we don't fund some of these technologies, they're never gonna get big enough to actually make change. And so, it's not just about planting trees and it's not just about like cook stoves in Mongolia. But if you don't fund that cook stove in Mongolia, A, self-impact is never gonna be there because they don't have the money to change these out themselves. There's other...
technologies that are being funded by these things that it's important for us to support. Like I said, there's never going to be large scale change. So that is one thing. Travel is just hard. We can't tell our clients to not have people travel to their events. And if you think about it on the flip side, if you have leading conferences that bring a lot of people together, hopefully it's then reducing the small amount of travel that they have to make. And so some of our clients are also asking that question in exit surveys by coming to our conference and having multiple meetings and
having time for these meetings, how many flights do you think that reduced? So it's a give and take, but travel is just hard. One thing that we do try to help our clients understand is we have one big client and they flip-flop back and forth between an East Coast city and a West Coast city. And so we look at the attendee travel over multiple years and the attendees coming for the most part are very similar, but the carbon emissions of...
flying into an East Coast city versus a West Coast city because they have a lot of international is very different. So there are small things we can do in travel being like, okay, your emissions are actually lower when you're on the West Coast than the East Coast. So when we're moving forward with RFPs and looking for venues, maybe we do two years in a row on the West Coast and then go to the East Coast because right now they flip back and forth. And there's definitely a difference in emissions, but travel is just hard, a hard nut to crack. You have staff.
You have things happening in the flight industry, but we can't tell our industry to stop traveling. Everyone wants to get together and they're incredibly impactful. That's where scientists come, I'm talking about science. So that's where scientists come and test any tools before they decide if they want one rather than like a doctor having to fly out to the research facility one-on-one. There is a lot of useful reasons to have large events, but their travel is just impactful.
Mike Smith (35:18)
Yeah.
We are a social species. We have to get together. I talk to you fairly frequently, you know, through Zoom, but I value much more my time when I'm with you in person. I need to see you in three dimensions rather than two. And so, yeah, we're just not gonna get rid of that. What we need to do is just figure out how to do it better. So yeah, I love that. I wanna pivot a little bit. I know that you're big in the B Corp space here in Denver. And then you're obviously working for a company
that really is trying to make environmental impact core to what it does. How do you think business can be kind of a force for good? And then why does B Corp resonate so strongly with?
Corey (36:19)
There's no other industry don't know what B Corp is. It's a certification that a business gets to say that they care about people, planet and profit basically. And it's a very hard certification. I always get upset when people are like, it's too hard. I'm like, that's like what gives you that. Yeah. So it's a certificate, much like you can have certified organic.
Mike Smith (36:32)
That's the point!
Corey (36:39)
XYZ or non-GMO XYZ. There's nothing else for a company or a business, a certification that quickly tells you like this company cares and actually has practices in place that are impactful in a positive way, both social and environmental. And there's a couple of different pillars that you have to go through for the certification. And you have to dig deep. If you don't own your building, it's very difficult, some of these questions, because it asks about your wastewater systems and your energy use.
I worked for three B Corps and one of the companies, said, we have renewable energy and we got the information from our municipality. And they came back and said, what hydro plants, specific hydro plants does your energy come from? And we had to call the municipality up on the phone and be like, apparently hydro is not good enough answer, specifically which one? So when I say the certification is difficult, it's difficult for a good reason.
But what it does is tell you that the company cares about their employees, that it is aware of its supply chain because it asks a lot of questions about your supply chain. your suppliers from underrepresented groups, from women-owned groups? Do they have other certifications? they par for 1 % for the planet? If it's a physical consumable item, is it rainforest alliance? There's just a lot of other things that you have to know about your supply chain. I've been asked a lot about governance.
So do you have a third party looking at your finances? It's just an all encompassing certification that really helps you understand that this company cares more about just profits and they care about the impact they're making. And so there are over a hundred B Corps in Colorado. I chair what is called B Local Colorado. So we get all the B Corps in the state together to be a force for good. And I think that it's important for companies to understand like what is ethos? How do we function outside of just like making money, looking at our clients and looking at our...
at our employees, but also looking at our community because as an employer, we are very fortunate. We live in Colorado, which is a great state. But if it becomes a crummy state, our employers aren't going to get people who want to live here and work here. If our state becomes too expensive, they're not going to be able to keep their employees in Denver, a metro area in Boulder, where a lot of our companies are based. So when we come together to be of when we talk about B Corp as a force for good, we're coming together to say,
We care about our community and we care about the environment because our employees want to stay here. Or if there's a law coming up, we as B Corps agree with this law or don't agree with this law because this is how we function as a business and these like ethos are important to us. People always used to think like, well, we don't have climate injustice in our state. We do right outside of Denver. Like we have this huge like Suncor plant. It's poisoning a city very, very.
close to Denver, these kids are missing over 100 days of school of year. And I don't think a lot of people know about this. So we brought it up in the B Corp community to be like, our community is not just our B Corp community, it's the entire community that we live in. So we need to act on this and make sure more people know what it's about because that's what we are as B Corps. We are those who care about our business, we are those who care about our employees, but we're also those who care about our supply chain and the community around us. So I love being a B Corp.
I think the certification is also super impactful. It's a roadmap for good, right? So a lot of companies are like, when I grew up, what do want to be when I grew up? It's a great roadmap to kind of look at how do you do it well. I've also helped large companies go through the BIA for certification and it helps them change the way that they're functioning and the operations and even some of the policies they have in place, which will benefit the rest of their stakeholders. Maybe not in the short term, but in the long term.
We are asked to speak at colleges quite often about what it's like for me to work for a B Corp, but what is it like for a company to be B Corp certified? And I will tell you, they all tell me, I'm only looking to work for B Corps. The people in college right now, they are very much looking at what is the company I'm about to work for stand for? Do they care about me as an employee? Do they care about the community? Do they actually look at the supply chain and make decisions based on environmental and social impacts?
There's more and more schools within our state, but within the country as well, that they have classes on this and B Corp is one of the things that they talk about. They have impact classes. They have impact MBAs in Colorado. So it's a certification that I think says a lot about what a company stands for and what a company is doing. And I really appreciate the fact that Honeycomb Strategies is a B Corp.
Mike Smith (40:57)
Yeah, here, No, it's a perfect answer. You know, the thing I was thinking about when you're talking about that is one on the Impact MBA is that we've had an Impact MBA intern last year and she was phenomenal. Just smart, motivated, driven individual, really wanted to change the world. And so, you know, I think sometimes people think about like that, it's also woo-woo.
Corey (40:58)
That was a really long answer, but sorry. Super passionate about it.
Mike Smith (41:25)
to use parlance of certain people woke or whatever it is, right? But I really think of B Corp as two things. I think of B Corp as it's actually kind of old fashioned in my opinion, because like it used to be that people thought of businesses as institutions in their communities, right? And that like you, like your reputation mattered in the town that you were in and the business that you hosted. Like people knew if you were doing business the right way. And as we've...
become kind of a little bit more fractured and mobile as a society, it's harder to kind of replicate that. So B Corp is kind of taking what's old and making it new again. Like, do you treat people decently? Are you responsible steward of environmental resources? Do you have all the policies that make sure that you're well governed and that you're not gonna, the business is not gonna blow up because you're doing things you shouldn't be. So I feel like it's that. And I also, I continue to get drawn to this idea and my...
It's anecdote, right? But like in my life, I have seen that generally if you do the right thing, it's profitable. Doing the right thing, maybe not in the short term, you might be able to it to scam a buck or two from somebody by kind of taking advantage of them. But over the longterm, you're going to be happier with who you are as a person and your business is going to probably do better if you just do the right thing.
Corey (42:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Smith (42:46)
And so I love the idea of like B-Labs, the company that is the thought leader around B Corp and helps to kind of create the movement associated with this. That you don't even have to necessarily get the B-Corp certification, but if you just take that first step and look at like all the things that you could do and just do a little bit now, do a little bit next week, do a little bit the week after that, like you're gonna make a lot of progress.
Corey (43:07)
I I talked to companies too when they say, it is being a B Corp profitable. We actually ask our clients, is this important to you as like an exit survey when we're done with one project at a time? And they say it is important to them. But I would also like, I put that question back on who's ever asking me, am I, do you ask your clients if it's what you're doing is important to them? Like you as a company, the ethos of your company, like pick some of those words out or pick some of those
thought leadership, things that you all talk about out and ask your clients, is this important to you as a company? And then you'll find out like, is this something I should be doing or not? Does a client find this impactful or not? You also get information probably of like, I wish you all did this instead. And it's probably something that's a little bit more sustainable, either environmental or social impact-y.
Mike Smith (43:54)
I love it. Well, I think that's where we're going to have to end. Again, today, Corey Clark, my friend and the Director of Events and Experiences for Honeycomb Strategies has been educating us about good and bads of sustainability around the events industry a lot more good than you would expect. You can go find Honeycomb Strategies at hcsustainability.com. Obviously, we'll have a link to it in TheClimateDad.com as well. Corey, it's been great to have you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Corey (44:21)
Yeah, okay. Be there soon.
Mike Smith (44:25)
beers.
Mike Smith (44:32)
Corey is the best. I'm really proud to work with her. I'm proud to work with the team at Honeycomb Strategies, and I'm really just glad that they're in my corner. All right, here are your three big takeaways from today's discussion. One, there are small, seemingly inconsequential decisions that can have massive impacts. Two examples stuck out to me from what Corey talked about. One is that something small like to have carpet or not, and the color of that carpet.
is massive. can literally reduce tons of waste just by that small decision. Another that stuck out to me was the assumption that an event should switch coasts every year. This probably just seems like a natural and intuitive thing, but it has major environmental consequences. These decisions that might be done quickly can have huge outcomes. So take 30 seconds to think about like the small decisions and see if they're really as small as you think.
Your second takeaway. Communication in everything is key. Don't assume that because you said it once, it'll sink in. Humans just aren't built that way. We all need to participate in both actively putting out the message repeatedly so it has the opportunity to sink in and to also being active in receiving these messages. Sustainability is important. If it's important to you, it's worth saying more than once. And the third thing.
Don't assume that the way that things have always been done are the ways that it needs to be done. I really liked how Corey was talking about how event managers just stopped offering non-sustainable choices and nobody really complained. The world can be better if we decide to make it better and you can be part of that. And I really think this applies throughout our lives. Now, before we wrap up with your Small Wave of the Week, we want to hear from you here at The Climate Dad.
go to Aclymate.com or send an email to TheClimateDad at Aclymate.com to submit a question for us at the show. Again, Aclymate as always is spelled A-C-L-Y-M-A-T-E. If your business needs help measuring, reducing, reporting, or offsetting your company's climate footprint, please reach out to our team here at Aclymate. We're going to get you set up with the best, the most affordable, easiest climate solution out there. We're going to give you some real carbon intelligence.
Thank you all for listening. I'll be back next time with a breakdown of all things climate. Make sure to subscribe to The Climate Dad where you get your podcasts. And please, please, please make sure to share, like, and comment on social media. I'm Mike Smith. You've been listening to The Climate Dad and here she is Julie Schneiderman of EcoStiks with your Small Wave of the Week.
Julie Schneiderman (47:21)
Hello and welcome back to Small Waves, where small waves make big waves through collective collaboration for a better planet. I'm Julie Upcycle, and I'm here to share simple, actionable eco hacks to weave into your daily busy lives. This holiday season, I want to talk about something that's been on my mind. I'm feeling disconnected. The holidays are often painted as a time of joy and togetherness, but if you're feeling out of sync with others, yourself, or even the world, you're not alone.
Here's the truth. Our sense of disconnection can sometimes reflect how we interact with the planet. And surprisingly, finding ways to connect with nature can help us feel more connected to ourselves and others. Let's start small with an actionable climate hack that can transform your holiday season from an active connection through nature and turn it into an annual holiday tradition.
Try this connection ritual. Step outside, yes, even if it's cold, and plant something symbolic, like a native seed or a small tree or place a special stone or a rock with intention. Dedicate it to yourself, the earth, and to someone you care about, even if they're far away or maybe no longer with us. This small act
can feel grounding and a reminder that we're all part of something bigger. Loneliness thrives when we feel separate. But when we take even small steps to nurture the earth, we're reminded that we're part of a larger community, the community of life itself. The holidays can be a season not just of giving, but of reconnecting with the planet, with the people, and with ourselves.
So if you're feeling disconnected this season, take a moment to step outside, breathe, and offer something back to this world that sustains us, you, and it. You might find that the act of connecting with nature creates ripples, helping you feel more at home in yourself and in your community.
Thanks for joining me on Small Waves. Small waves make big waves. Let's keep making small waves that lead to big impact. Wishing you peace and connection this holiday season. I'll see you next time.
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