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In this episode of The Climate Dad, Mike Smith discusses the shifting patterns of tornado activity in the U.S. due to climate change. He explains how changing tornado patterns can cause fatal heatwaves in humid areas. Mike then interviews Elizabeth Wimbush, the Director of Sustainability and Responsibility at PPAI. They discuss Elizabeth's personal journey into sustainability, and how individual action can combat climate issues. They explore the promotional products industry's shift towards sustainable practices and the regulatory pressures driving this change. Elizabeth highlights the importance of optimism in tackling climate issues, and uses the recovery of the ozone layer as a successful environmental initiative example. The episode emphasizes the need for a collective effort when addressing climate change.
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:07 The Changing Patterns of Tornado Activity
02:59 The Link Between Tornadoes and Fatal Heat
04:55 Taking Action to Address Climate Change
11:22 Introducing Elizabeth Wimbush of PPAI
11:40 Seeking Assistance from Aclymate
19:55 Transition to the Promotional Products Industry
25:42 Challenges and Opportunities in the Industry
33:44 Pressure and Change in the Industry
40:22 The Power of Individuals and Positive Mindset
46:02 Surprising Willingness to Change in the Industry
48:09 Believing in Your Impact Potential
Mike Smith (00:00)
Hey everyone, welcome back to The Climate Dad, the environmental podcast where we talk about and explain the news and science of climate change. I'm your host. My name is Mike Smith and I'm a father of two great kids. I'm also the founder of Aclymate the climate solution where we help businesses without sustainability teams to measure, reduce, report, offset their footprint without having to become a climate expert and with our expert guidance and net zero software. Today's guest will be Elizabeth Wimbush of Promotional Products Association International or PPAI.
She's passionate and driven without being preachy. I'm a big fan. But first, I'll be talking about a study around tornado activity in the United States and how tornado alley, it's on the move. If you live in or care about someone that lives in the Eastern United States, you'll definitely want to listen. I'll also be providing a few suggestions about what you can do for free usually on climate. Let's listen, share, and get going.
One thing that most people don't talk about often for climate risks is around the risk of tornadoes. People often think about flooding or fires or hurricanes, but the U .S. has a really interesting geography. Due to the flat topography of the Midwest, the moisture of the Gulf of Mexico, and the movement of air coming off of the Rocky Mountains and out of Canada, it causes America to be the land of tornadoes. Did you know that approximately 75 % or three out of four tornadoes that occur in the world?
occur within the United States? I know that when I think about tornadoes, I go back to my school days learning of tornado alley and how tornado alley affects Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. I mean, a key part of American culture is about a tornado transporting a girl to a strange land in the Wizard of Oz. I even took my kids to see Dorothy's ruby slippers at the Smithsonian this summer.
But a fact we learned about as children isn't as true as it used to be. Yes, tornadoes still happen in tornado alley, but an interesting study came out earlier this year in Nature. In June, it said that tornado incidence is decreasing in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas, and that a new hotspot is emerging and includes the lower Mississippi River Valley, roughly centered on Memphis, Tennessee. It incorporates big parts of Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi,
Missouri, Alabama, Kentucky, and even parts of Indiana. That's kind of crazy. But what's causing that? If you're a listener of the show, you're probably going to guess that it's climate related. And you'd be right. But the how? How is it climate related? Well, tornadoes form from thunderstorms, major thunderstorms. And the main ingredients to tornadoes and thunderstorms are heat and moisture.
The lower Midwest is warming and that much is evidenced by direct measurement. So that accounts for the heat part. But other places are warming and they're not seeing this. And the reason for why that's happening is because while warmer air can hold more moisture paradoxically, it typically doesn't and it causes the humidity to drop. And that's because there isn't proportionally more moisture to be absorbed. This is driving the historical tornado areas
the former tornado alley to have fewer tornadoes because the air is increasingly more arid. That's why tornadoes are decreasing in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. However, the Mississippi River Valley drainage system encompasses every drop of rain that falls between the Rockies and the Appalachians. It drains from Alberta in Canada in the northwest, New York State in the northeast, New Mexico in the southwest and North Carolina in the southeast.
it's huge, and as a result, there's plenty of water. So persistent moisture coupled with increasing heat in the Mississippi River Valley means that tornadoes are on the rise in the area we described and at levels previously that were only seen in the historical tornado alley of Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. But it doesn't stop there because even though they're not at tornado alley levels outside of these areas, there is increased tornadic activity across
almost the entire eastern United States, including the upper Mississippi River Valley and Ohio River valleys throughout the southeast and up the eastern seaboard as far as Maine. If you live pretty much anywhere in the eastern United States from Florida to Wisconsin, Louisiana to Maine, you're seeing likely increased tornadic activity. Pretty much the only place that isn't is the Appalachian Mountains itself. So that's not awesome.
But it's something we can adjust to. People have lived in areas with tornadoes. Like I said, it's part of our culture. But now I'm going to tell you something that's really scary, and I've talked about it before. These tornadoes are the canary in the coal mine. They're the indicator that the US has sufficient water to cause something that is potentially a lot more deadly. Fatal heat. Because hot air is typically less humid when temperatures rise, humans will generally start to experience misery.
but with enough drinking water and shade, they'll usually survive. But in areas where there's sufficient surface water to drive the humidity to stay high with rising temperatures, you can reach experienced temperatures that exceed human endurance. It doesn't matter how healthy you are, how much shade you have, how much water you drink, but when the dew point around you rises above 97 degrees Fahrenheit, your body will no longer be able to cool off from sweat. You'll only heat up as you go.
In short, without air conditioning, even healthy people start dying. We talked about it before, but you can read a fictional account of this in the book, Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, which is set in, it's a fictional account in India. But that fictional account is underpinned by science. Major river valleys around the world in tropical areas like India and subtropical areas like Arkansas are projected to get quite dangerous from humid, fatal heat.
And if you look, you'll find the evidence of this already. It's here now. Last summer, the heat index in Lawrence, Kansas reached 134 degrees. That's because for a brief while, the dew point was above 97 degrees Fahrenheit. We routinely see heat indices in the 120s throughout the region. And we've seen that, especially in Texas, our electric networks are a little bit more fragile than expected. The air conditioning may fail as the temperatures rise.
we're going to have to adapt to our new strange land. And when it comes to tornadoes and heat, we're not in Kansas anymore. And that's your Climate Dad joke of the week.
So that's all pretty grim, right? Well, let's talk about it for a minute. What are you going to do about it? Some people will decide that it's all junk and continue doing what they're doing. We know the people that roll coal, but there's less extreme examples out there that we all know. Other people will decide that nothing can be done, throw their hands in the air and use it as an excuse to do nothing. I don't have much patience for fatalists either. Because the reality is,
you do have the power to do something about it. You have hundreds or thousands of people that you know, interact with and can influence. And you really don't need to be preachy, just passionate. I'm an engineer by training, so I tend to think about human systems like physical ones. For example, a nuclear fission chain reaction involves one neutron being shot into the nucleus of a uranium atom. Stay with me here. Because what comes out? Something completely different.
ton of energy and two new highly energized neutrons that will double the outcomes on the next two uranium atoms, which will then double again and again and again. In short order, the next thing you know it's an explosion that's hotter than the sun.
Can you change two minds? Can you move two people from stasis into action? Of note, you have a big opportunity in the next two months here in the United States. If you volunteered for a phone bank or door knocking campaign, you could change more than two minds, a lot more. Did you know that Donald Trump won the state of Michigan in 2016, a critical swing state by fewer than two votes per precinct? Two.
Volunteering for political canvassing costs nothing but time and could be the most impactful thing you could do on climate this year. Maybe this decade.
Don't want to get political? Well, you could talk to your boss and ask what your company is doing about climate. It doesn't really take much time to get a baseline environmental assessment or really all that much money. And it costs you as an individual, nothing to ask your boss. Don't want to do that? You could sit down and come up with a plan on how to waste less food or eat less meat or switch to a climate friendly bank or a climate friendly insurance carrier or walk and bike more or you get the idea.
Most actions cost nothing but giving a damn. But I'll tell you this, the answer definitely isn't to sit there and wring your hands. You know that won't do a thing and moreover, it won't even help you feel better. So just resolve to get started and do something today.
All right, a couple of things I need to ask you all. The first, one tiny thing you can do about climate is share what you've learned from The Climate Dad. Go to your podcast app right now and like, rate, review, or share it. It costs nothing but a few seconds and it'll help us keep growing the audience and getting the message out there. Two, if you're ready, and you should be, to be part of what reduces our risk of hitting climate tipping points, the power continues to be in your hands.
We'd love to help you over here at Aclymate, where we have the easiest, most intuitive climate solution for your business. We'll get you a baseline environmental assessment, show you ways to reduce your carbon footprint, and we'll get you on the path to net zero. It'll help your environmental branding to win new customers and keep the most valuable ones, attract and retain the talent you need from the climate generation. And our green business certification program will help you complete a sustainability audit and win certification with CDP, B Corp, EcoVadis
Green Business Benchmark, and more. Why not pump up those EcoVadis scores? Are you looking to purchase carbon offsets but need a reliable carbon credit broker? We have the best carbon offset programs and leading selection of sustainable projects on the web.
Now, it's time to meet with today's guest, Elizabeth Wimbush, with Promotional Products Association International, or PPAI. She's had a sustainability journey that started with the idealism of youth, but has really grown and matured with time.
Mike Smith (11:40)
All right, today on The Climate Dad, I'm going to be joined by my good friend, Elizabeth Wimbush from PPAI. She's the director of sustainability and responsibility for that organization. For those of you that aren't familiar, PPAI is the trade association associated with promotional products industry. Elizabeth, thanks for joining us today on The Climate Dad.
Elizabeth Wimbush (12:01)
Absolutely, thanks for having me.
Mike Smith (12:03)
So let's get started. Tell me and tell everybody else who you are and a little bit about your background.
Elizabeth Wimbush (12:10)
Sure. So again, my name is Liz Wimbush. I am the first Director of Sustainability and Responsibility here at PPAI. I am in the Los Angeles area, but our organization's head office is in Dallas, Texas. And I've been here for almost exactly a year now. I moved from Toronto, so I am Canadian and grew up kind of all over the Western.
prairie provinces of Canada. Some fun facts. I was the first girl allowed into Boy Scouts in Alberta when I was seven years old. So I did spend a lot of my time outside being pretty involved in and engaged with nature. I also started, I'm trying to remember where it came from, but we started this
neighborhood recycling, like children's pressure group, basically, where we all just like peer pressured our parents into being better at recycling. When we were kids, we had this little binder where we would keep track of everybody and what they were doing. And I think to help inform a lot of my worldview, I will just say, I've seen the movie Fern Gully more times than I can count.
Mike Smith (13:34)
I love it. so a couple of things to talk about there. so the first one is, is, growing up in Alberta, for people that aren't familiar with Canada, Alberta is sometimes referred to as the Texas of Canada. my, my wife, Lindsey, went to college down in Texas and was, aghast at the lack of recycling programs when she went to Texas. And so, it's interesting that little Liz, you know,
Elizabeth Wimbush (13:47)
Yes.
Mike Smith (14:01)
in Alberta was carrying the flag of recycling. What got you doing that?
Elizabeth Wimbush (14:05)
Yeah. I think it was a David Suzuki kids program. think it was something.
Mike Smith (14:13)
Shut up. How old were you that you're listening to David Suzuki?
Elizabeth Wimbush (14:16)
I'm exactly the right age to have been listening to David Suzuki. God, little kid, there were were kid programs on CBC with David Suzuki. So it would have been like, like five or six was probably when we started.
Mike Smith (14:20)
No, no, when you were doing that, like how old were you?
okay, gotcha. Okay.
So, all right, so you're watching David Suzuki on Canadian Public Broadcast. And this television show that resonates with you. Like I've got to do something better. And as a result, as a six year old start talking to your parents about recycling.
Elizabeth Wimbush (14:50)
I believe there was some sort of handout that was given if you like signed up to be one of these recycling warriors. We had a little binder full of stats on what recycling meant and what it could do and how to save endangered species through making sure they had habitat and protecting existing habitat.
Yeah, real, real light child reading now that I'm saying it out loud. I was pretty real primed for this career, I guess.
Mike Smith (15:26)
Well, I mean, like they found a receptive mind, like you were predisposed for this sort of stuff, What do you think got you to start appreciating all that?
Elizabeth Wimbush (15:36)
spending, I think just a lot of my childhood outdoors, like we camped constantly. I was a tree climbing, hanging out outside kind of kid, like rode my bike everywhere, built forts everywhere. So I think just, really connecting with and engaging with nature at a young age.
Mike Smith (16:00)
I gotcha. I know in my own life, I found that as well. I grew up a bit in Alaska. All my earliest memories are as a kid in Alaska being in the outdoors. My father used to work a week on week off type of job. Sometimes he'd trade to have two weeks off and we'd go just deep into the woods on all sorts of expeditions. And so it's all my earliest memories. then growing up in Idaho, I was a little bit aimless as a teenager and then
Elizabeth Wimbush (16:10)
Mm -hmm.
Mike Smith (16:29)
My parents let me their old backpacking gear and they said if you want to go anytime you can I was like cool and I just disappeared out into the woods and so it sounds like that was kind of formative for you as well as the ability to just appreciate nature as as nature
Elizabeth Wimbush (16:38)
Nice.
Yep, agreed.
Mike Smith (16:46)
okay. So, little Liz recycling warrior, grows up and then, you know, tell me where your, where your career took you as, as, as you became an adult.
Elizabeth Wimbush (16:58)
Yeah, so I moved around a lot and ultimately ended up in the Toronto area and I got a job at Canadian National Railway. So the big class one railway in Canada, which now I think is also in the US and Mexico, but worked in logistics. So I did a lot of training and education in logistics and worked on a few projects there and kind of started to get the sense that a pretty
I guess young for a career age that I wasn't sure if this was the career path for me. I didn't feel like I was positively contributing to a lot. In fact, I worried that I was over -complicating or participating in projects that maybe weren't aligned with my values. And, you know, I was pretty young. I was in my early mid -20s and I had this incredible potential career that felt like
golden chains. And if I didn't do something that I felt really passionate about, I would always regret it. So I left and cashed in my pension. And to the shock and awe of many friends and family who were not impressed with that move, I opened a coffee shop with a friend of mine. We went into business together and it was a organic fair trade coffee shop that we did all our own baking in -house in Toronto.
And that was centered around the idea that we wanted to build community that valued local ingredients, organic ingredients, and minimizing waste as much as possible. So I did that for seven and a half years, and it was incredible. Everybody should at some point own their own business. It really helps you understand what you're capable of and what you're passionate about.
also helps you understand how little money you can live on for a period of time. I do miss the espresso machine. We had a beautiful espresso machine. I missed the community that we built. that was a really big part of it. And even kind of.
coming to terms with this idea that a lot of what I wanted to do and contribute to the world was helping people vote with their money. You know, a lot of people would come in on the way to work every day to get a coffee and they weren't as interested in the fact that we had biodegradable packaging or, you know, all the coffee beans we sourced were from fair trade women run collectives in Peru. They just wanted a really good coffee.
in a good scone and to enjoy the people they interacted with. Well, I wanted to set up an environment where they could have that, but contribute to something that I believed in. So I'm helping them vote with their dollars and what I believe in.
Mike Smith (19:55)
That's interesting. was there in your time with the Canadian Railway, was there like a point, was there like an instance where that caused this significant departure that said, I need to go do something very different with my life than what I've been doing? Or was it more gradual?
Elizabeth Wimbush (20:10)
it was pretty gradual, but I think there was a, there was a turning point. was involved in a project, moving a lot of the, infrastructure up to Northern Canada to help facilitate a mining community. And there were a lot of questions I had that weren't really answered that I felt not great about. there wasn't anything horrible or.
obvious, I just am a pretty curious person and felt like I didn't know the answers to some of the questions I had about that and I didn't feel great about not knowing.
Mike Smith (20:48)
it sounds like this is very much of like a journey of discovery for you in being this, business owner. learned a lot about yourself. You learned a lot about, other people, and about like kind of what makes them tick. And, it sounds like if I were to, to paraphrase what you said is that not that people are selfish per se, but maybe that they tend to be a little,
Elizabeth Wimbush (20:57)
Mm
Mike Smith (21:12)
focused in the moment about like they want to appreciate the experience and the thing that they're purchasing with their money, but that they like to hear about some of the other stuff potentially and that this is an opportunity to speak about it. In talking with some of the people that I've met in my time with other PPAI members, they say that about you a lot actually, is that the words that they used were drip, almost like coffee, that you drip.
information into them little by little. Is that where that came from?
Elizabeth Wimbush (21:48)
Maybe, that's really interesting. That could be part of it for sure. I think understanding that there is a desire in everybody to positively impact, but their awareness of that varies and their willingness to participate in it really varies. I do try and make sure I meet people where they're at. I don't wanna be this.
from on high preaching perfection and how dare you and finger wagging. One thing I worry about with a lot of sustainability talks and education and positions is we have this idea that everybody needs to be doing it perfectly. you know, instead of having a handful of people doing it perfectly, if we have millions of people doing it imperfectly, learning, getting better.
you know, that really starts to stack up. So, yeah, I like that perspective, the dripping, that's great.
Mike Smith (22:55)
well, so you're no longer in coffee, you're in promotional product. So how was the transition from Liz Wimbush an entrepreneur in coffee to Liz Wimbush, Sultan of sustainability in PPAI.
Elizabeth Wimbush (23:10)
it was a, an interesting journey. So I sold my cafe. I actually sold it to a social enterprise that helped newcomers specifically from Syria, give them a place to land and get experience dealing with the public and, and give them some community. I wasn't sure what I wanted to be when I grew up at that point. I was,
trying to figure out my next move and a friend told me their friend's company was hiring and that based on the skill set they needed, I would be a really good fit. So I interviewed and had no idea what the promotional products industry was It is very much a Wizard of Oz kind of experience where you see behind the curtain and it's this massive industry that you kind of were aware of, but you didn't know existed to the extent that it does.
I jumped in, I was a production manager for a company called Rightsleeve Marketing. And really noticed that in my first couple months there, this industry was struggling with the idea of responsible sourcing And there were some tides that were turning
quality over quantity, and I wanted to help the company I was with really lean into that. So decided to stick around and build out some programs there and help with again, voting with dollars, helping people use their money and their spend in a way that aligned with their values showing them that that is possible with promo. You know, it's not something that a lot of people, especially almost 10 years ago now, we're really thinking of that
You could be buying merch that has positive impact. So, you know, lean into that decided that, coming from an industry that was a bit further ahead in this and awareness on sustainable issues and social issues, that I could have more impact maybe in an industry that needed a little more help. So stayed on and kind of moved in through my role, moved up through my roles there. And the company was acquired by a larger distributor.
called Genumark and I eventually there was the VP of supply chain and sustainability. So I did run vendor management and a team of production, and all the sustainability initiatives including B Corp certification, which I'm proud to say they are a certified B Corp now.
Mike Smith (25:42)
that's awesome. okay. So you're working at the Genumark in the promotional products industry. And for folks that don't know the promotional products industry is, includes a wide variety of things. could be the, the swag that you get from your bank. That's the little plastic piggy bank. It could be the mug that you get at, for retirement ceremony. what are, what, what else is in promotional products?
Elizabeth Wimbush (26:10)
it's such a huge group of different categories. So you've got uniforms. If you think of companies that have uniforms that is part of our industry, anything, like you said, the corporate giveaways, welcome kits, employee onboarding, anything to do with even kids sports teams, know, the uniforms involved in kids sports teams, corporate sponsorships up to
national level sport leagues, you know, you sit down, you get a giveaway, you go to a store and you get a gift of purchase that has a logo on it. That is also considered a promotional product. So really covers this huge range of, of products.
Mike Smith (26:56)
That's going to be a very challenging industry for sustainability and responsibility. Like there's a reason that you're the first for, for PPAI, right? Which is like, there's a lot of waste. A lot of this stuff can be disposable. and so, so how do you, so you're doing this thing at Genumark and you're kicking butt and you got them a B Corp, which is, you know, really difficult, green business, certification program. you're
Elizabeth Wimbush (27:02)
Haha
Mike Smith (27:24)
you're doing all the things. How did you make the jump from Genumark up to the trade association?
Elizabeth Wimbush (27:31)
Great question. So I was feeling pretty good. I liked my job. I loved the people I worked with and my husband got an opportunity to move us to California with work. So I started to think about what I was going to do in California. Would I continue to work for this company in Canada remotely? What would my options be? And around the same time, very serendipitously, this opportunity came up to have a conversation with the CEO of PPAI
at time, Dale Denham, who had heard from somebody in the industry, they were starting to look for somebody to fill this role. And my name came up Our board had
decided that one of the priorities for the association was to focus on responsibility and help members build a roadmap for the industry. So they wanted somebody with a focus and experience in the industry to really help people along. So had this conversation and very much like right place, right time. And a little while later, he reached out and said, Hey, we think it's you like,
Would you have interest in this? Is this something you think you would want to do? It's not going to be an easy job. You know, there's, there are headwinds, like, you know, you know, this industry it's, it's big and the difference in company sizes and scope and, and what they're involved in is so vast, but it seems like you're really passionate about this. And that's what we want. We want somebody who's going to drive this forward. So the big draw for me was the impact potential.
the potential impact I could have on the industry is so much greater here at the association. You know, I got to talk regularly with all of the supplier side of the industry on their sustainability initiatives and their plan and really pushing them to do more.
I get to talk to business service members like Aclymate. I get to really help people figure out where they can have the most impact. I thought if this is what I'm passionate about and this is really what I want to be doing with my life, then this is where I can be doing it at scale. I have to at least try. So I went for it.
Mike Smith (29:48)
I love it. Little Liz on her recycling flag, carrying a recycling flag has now moved into becoming adult Liz in sunny Los Angeles, still carrying on about making sure that the responsible use of resources. So that's fun. Why was PPAI all of sudden motivated about this?
Elizabeth Wimbush (29:52)
Yeah.
So there has been a slow gradual movement in the industry. I think when I first joined RIghtsleeve and I started asking suppliers about sustainable products or sustainable initiatives, what they were doing as a company to ensure fair working conditions or responsible management of waste,
Like not a lot of people wanted to talk about it, or if they did, they were really passionate, but they weren't sure where to start or what to do. That has been gradually changing. And it feels like, like this massive ship that, you know, you start changing the course and it feels like it takes forever and you're not really moving anywhere. And then all of sudden you start to see change. That has been happening in our industry and a lot of
This is influenced by consumers, buyers, our industry. I won't say it's unique, but it is different in that we don't have a lot of direct feedback from the people who get the products from our industry. So if you go to a trade show, if you go to a new job where you get a welcome kit, what you're getting, you didn't have a lot of say in the purchasing decisions involved in that. So there's this delay.
And sometimes broken telephone communication from the people who are receiving the products to the people buying them to the distributors, sourcing them to the suppliers and the manufacturers who make them slowly, but surely that message is going back up the supply chain that we want. We want to know where these products are coming from. We want to know what they're made of. We want to know who made them. We want to know how to dispose of them properly. So that started to really shift and become.
more of an imperative. And in the past two or so years, I'd say that has started to really move forward. went from, you know, five years ago, it felt like our industry was 10 years behind to it now feels like we're a year or two behind. You know, it's really accelerated. And a lot of it was just listening to membership. So our board, our board of directors is made up of industry volunteers and they guide what our association does.
So they set our mandates and our priorities and it was decided that one of the five pillars of PPAI was to encourage responsible sourcing. So responsibility in the promotional products and make sure that our members feel supported in those journeys. Everybody on staff felt very passionately about this, but nobody on staff was passionate enough about it to do it. So.
There was a lot of talk about bringing in an outside consulting company and really building out a roadmap. But ultimately this decision that somebody from the industry who can meet people where they're at and understands their struggles and limitations was decided on, you know, this is the right time. We're at a point in this, this big shift where we have the ability to influence and really help direct positive momentum.
move the industry forward and not have it kind of stagnate or fight against a lot of what we need to do to help solve climate change and solve for the waste problems and make sure that we're using resources and energy efficiently.
Mike Smith (33:44)
That's awesome. Like it's, it's really interesting to me that PPAI made one of their five pillars about responsible sourcing. Like this is, it's a core belief of the organization that for the industry to move forward, it's going to have to work on responsible sourcing. This isn't a nice to have sort of thing. They're saying that this is an essential business function of the industry association and of members of this industry association.
and what I've been hearing is, that like, this is because of individual choice and preferences that's moving back up the ecosystem from consumer to buyer to distributor to producer. Is there that, I mean, like that's like, that's great news for some of us. I feel like we're too small to be able to make a difference. Again, I'm imagining a little Liz carrying her flag and saying, we're going to, we're going to do some recycling mom. but also like, so it's great news for that, but also.
Elizabeth Wimbush (34:40)
Yep.
Mike Smith (34:43)
Is there what what's caused the acceleration in the last couple of years in your opinion? Is there more regulatory pressure? Are larger buyers starting to feel this? What's going on there?
Elizabeth Wimbush (34:51)
Yeah, there's definitely some regulatory pressure. One of the interesting things of our industry is, you know, we have a huge base of members. Right now we're somewhere between 15 and 16 ,000 member companies in primarily North America for PPAI. We have a very large part of that is small, medium enterprise. We've got a lot of mom and pop shops, a lot of folks, you know, working out of their home. But we also have these large multinational
billion dollar companies operating in our industry. And they will align themselves with the strictest compliance and regulatory pressures they face everywhere. So what's happening in the EU right now with the CSRD and a lot of the disclosure requirements there, they know that's coming. So if they align themselves across their whole company and supply chain with those guidelines, they're better positioned for the future. So
regulatory pressure is definitely a part of it. You know, lot of the very big corporates that are clients in our industry, Disney, Microsoft, Coke, think of the big, big ones, they are holding all of their supply chain partners to very high standards. And that is starting to ripple through to promo. So, you know, you think about a company of that size and scope, their buying power.
and the kind of pressure that they're exerting on their partners to make sure that they know what is going into their products, where it's coming from, what the impact of those products is. You know, even Amazon, these companies have mandates on carbon disclosures that by years, not too far from now, they will only work with partners that have fully mapped and understand where their emissions come from, including their scope three, which
know is a big messy beast for a lot of people in an industry that they don't make things themselves. They have to trace pretty far back to know what their, what their, where their emissions are coming from. But it's, it's coming.
Mike Smith (37:04)
Yeah. you referenced something known as a CSRD, which is a regulation in Europe known as the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive. short version is, is that every company over 250 employees, that's in Europe is going to have to report their footprint. and that has to be a full footprint Scope 1, Scope 2, & Scope 3 of course, being the entire value chain. So not only the products and services that they're buying, but also the products and services that they're selling.
the ultimate end of use there. Little recycling Liz continuing to move forward on this. So your members are feeling big pressure from companies that are doing business elsewhere. Even if the regulations don't apply to here in the United States or in Canada or anywhere in the world, if you're doing business with somebody that has this pressure, you're also going to have to report.
Elizabeth Wimbush (37:37)
That's right.
Mike Smith (37:59)
Have you seen like a minimum size of your members that, you know, that are starting to feel this pressure? Like is it, does it top out, like if companies have a couple hundred or are we talking even down to like, you know, five, 10 employees.
Elizabeth Wimbush (38:14)
Even down to the five, 10, a lot of it really depends on your market and how you're positioning yourself in the industry. So we have some real leaders that have been doing this for decades, you know, making promo responsibly and, really leaning into that side and selling to clients who have been interested in that for a long time. You know, for some of the big brands, like this is not new for Patagonia.
This is something that they have been wanting and engaged in for a long time. So there has been a demand for companies in our industry to be doing that for a while. Some of them are pretty small, to be honest, and they have become increasingly better positioned to grow with this demand and regulatory pressure. Some of it is also just the job market. Our industry for a while was
older, we'll say there wasn't a lot of, know, direct path into promo. It's this, everyone finds their way into it in a weird, like Wizard of Oz way. There was no, go to school and you find out you could get a degree in marketing and then go into promo. So wanting to make sure that we're attracting top talent and bringing fresh faces into the industry. Anybody, mean, my age and younger, they're looking for purpose in their work. They really be.
want to be working for a company that is doing something that they feel good about. It's, you know, I don't know the stat off the top of my head, but the percent of people who are willing to work for slightly less money to do work they feel has a positive impact. That number just keeps going up. So making sure that members are seeing that and understanding how to attract in a very competitive job market that this is a competitive advantage.
Mike Smith (40:09)
It sounds like you find that pretty exciting actually that there's this kind of this change in personality and expectation. What's the flip of that? What do you consider to be like an absolute headache when you're dealing with sustainability and climate?
Elizabeth Wimbush (40:22)
absolute headache would be the belief that as an individual, I can't do anything. That like cynicism, the why bother. I find that very frustrating and I don't like to engage in that kind of thought or behavior. Everybody can have an impact in your personal life.
in what you bring to work, in the conversations you have, and what you learn about and share. A big element of what I hope for our industry and how I think we move forward is sharing these wins and sharing the good news, the positive stories, because let's face it, climate anxiety is very real. Anybody who is passionate about this or has been involved in this for a long time, or even a short period of time.
The big picture can be pretty scary and stressful. So not falling prey to that. It's so big, why bother? And really encouraging people from an individual perspective to embrace their impact potential.
Mike Smith (41:37)
strikes me that your whole life lends truth to what you just said there, which is about that the individual can have an impact. I'm making a little light of it, but the reality is you did change your parents' You got them to start recycling. You got your friends and their parents to start recycling. In the industry, you're seeing this as well, individuals complaining that you're giving me junk I don't want.
junk that I can't use that's, is irresponsibly sourced. Like let's, let's improve what this is. And even as slow a filter as it is coming up from consumer to buyer to distributor to ultimate manufacturer, that pressure gradient happened and it created change. And now Elizabeth Wimbush is the director of sustainability and responsibility for PPAI as the very first for the industry association. I think it just kind of gives,
or proves the truth of what you're saying, which is that individuals can have outsized impacts.
Elizabeth Wimbush (42:39)
Absolutely. And I mean, to even take that a little further and give a shout out to my mom for letting me be that flag waving, recycling warrior. You know, she lives now in a small community on an island in BC that is very focused on a waste free life. And that, you know, she influences her friends and the other people that she talks to. And that is something like that's a whole lifestyle now that she lives that I'm
very proud of and I wish I could be there to participate in as well. Los Angeles, less waste free, but you know, we're working on it.
Mike Smith (43:17)
Los Angeles does have a little bit of more of a carefree vibe to it.
Elizabeth Wimbush (43:20)
Yeah.
Mike Smith (43:26)
What is something that you've learned about climate that you wish everyone knew?
Elizabeth Wimbush (43:32)
I hate to sound like a broken record, but that there are wins. You you look at things like the ozone layer and how this was something that was identified as a major issue, not that long ago, like in our lifetime, refrigerants and how they were impacting the thinning of the ozone layer and these massive holes. Like I remember some of the news reports in the nineties about how we were goners.
functionally. And if you look at that now, like those changes that were put in place, it worked. Those holes are getting smaller and it showed that we can do it. There's, there are roadmaps, know, like project drawdown, I think is a really good example. The United Nations, sustainable development goals. There are things we can do. They've, we've got the plans and they will work. They've been shown to work. I think.
Having that understanding and being empowered with that is something that I have really liked learning as I continue to engage with other sustainability professionals and understand more about climate.
Mike Smith (44:47)
Yeah, my hate to give up attitude. The ozone hole is a great one. It was actually signed in Canada, the Montreal Protocol, which helped to ban the production of CFCs and what ultimately was destroying the ozone. And then also I really do love what the good folks at Project Drawdown do. And they talk about like, we don't need new technologies. We just need to use the ones that we have.
There's definitely room for continuing to evolve the technological set and push forward on that. But it's not an either or, like we need new technologies otherwise we're not gonna make it. We've got the tools and the techniques now, it's just about implementation. that the individual, exactly. So what's something about your industry that surprised you lately?
Elizabeth Wimbush (45:29)
Yeah, just lean in.
I was a little concerned to be frank when I took this job that there would be a lot more pushback.
this idea that our industry is older and really reluctant to change, I've been surprised and delighted to learn that that is not the case.
Mike Smith (46:02)
Do think that extrapolates to other industries? mean, if promotional products is leaning into this, do you think every industry, maybe people are overestimating the resistance they'll get if they try to go after this?
Elizabeth Wimbush (46:17)
I think so. I think it's one of those, you know, the squeakiest wheel gets the grease scenario where you've got a vocal few who are really pushing back against progress. And I think they're far smaller numbers than we've been led to believe.
Mike Smith (46:41)
Do you have a mentor or a role model that you look up to in this area or just in general?
Elizabeth Wimbush (46:47)
I mean, pretty cliche, but my mom. True.
Mike Smith (46:51)
This is The Climate Dad. We're all about talking about parents.
Elizabeth Wimbush (46:57)
She has always been incredibly supportive and pushed me in the right times. You know, understanding that I could do whatever I wanted. If I wanted to be a Boy Scout as a girl at seven, then I could be a Boy Scout. If I wanted to change careers when I had a perfectly good one in my 20s and throw it all against a dream, go for it. I'll be there to help wash dishes on the weekend and plant flowers in the flower boxes. She's also just...
the smartest person I know. I have a few industry mentors, I would say, somebody who's been doing this for a very long time and is just constantly inspiring me, named Denise Taschereau And my professional ride or die, as I like to call him, Stevie Joe Musgrave, shout out to him, for helping me find job joy and be the most supportive
uplifting person that I've ever worked with.
Mike Smith (48:03)
That's a bold statement.
Elizabeth Wimbush (48:04)
And if he listens to this, I'm going to hear about it, but I hope he does.
Mike Smith (48:09)
Well, I think that's all the time that we have today. So I want to thank Liz. Thank you so much for joining me today on The Climate Dad. Again, for everybody that's listening at home, this is Elizabeth Wimbush. She's the director of sustainability and responsibility for PPAI, which is the promotional products industry association. Great having you today, Liz. Thanks.
Mike Smith (48:37)
Liz is a favorite of mine. I'm looking forward to sharing the stage with her next week at the PPAI Sustainability Summit. To wrap up, I want to hear from you. Go to Aclymate.com or send an email to TheClimateDad at Aclymate.com to submit a question for me or the show. Again, Aclymate is spelled A -C -L -Y -M -A -T -E. If your business needs help measuring, reducing, reporting, or offsetting your company's climate footprint, please reach out to my team at Aclymate and we'll be...
Happy to get you started with the best, most affordable, and easiest climate solution out there. Thanks again to Liz Wimbush for joining me, and thank you all for listening. I'll be back next time with a breakdown of all things climate and with another guest. Make sure to subscribe to The Climate Dad, where you get your podcasts, and to share, like, and comment on social media. I'm Mike Smith, and this was The Climate Dad.
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