Measuring Business Impact

Summary

In this conversation, Mike Smith interviews Russ Stoddard, the founder of Oliver Russell and Unit of Impact, about the importance of living your values in business and the role of green business certification programs like B Corp. They discuss the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and the need for businesses to prioritize environmental and social impact. Russ shares his personal journey in climate action and the challenges of making a meaningful impact. He emphasizes the importance of stakeholder activism and rejecting the status quo of shareholder primacy. Russ also mentions his book, 'Rise Up: How to Build a Socially Conscious Business,' which provides a template for building a business with social and environmental impact.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview

00:32 Exploring the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals

01:05 Introduction to the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals

03:02 The World is Enough: Meeting the Needs of People and the Planet

06:13 Rejecting the False Choice Between Economic Progress and Environmental Preservation

07:11 The Importance of Climate Action in the SDGs

08:09 Climate Change and Hunger

08:34 Climate Change and Sustainable Cities

09:04 Climate Change and Displacement

09:35 Climate Change and Life on Land and Below Water

10:33 Climate Change and Gender Equality and Social Inequalities

10:51 New Chapter

11:50 The Importance of Ethics and Values

12:50 Understanding the Purpose Behind Rules

13:47 Starting with Values and Mission Alignment

14:16 Defining Your Company's Values

14:25 Living Your Values

14:57 The Resurgence of Old-Fashioned Values

15:23 Introduction and Setting the Stage

17:50 The Journey of a Socially Conscious Business Leader

25:48 Impact of Climate Work on Branding and Business

36:43 Green Business Certification Programs and Climate Action

43:36 Rise Up: Building a Socially Conscious Business

45:44 Living Your Values on Climate

46:17 Sustainability Solutions for Businesses

46:42 The Climate Dad Podcast

46:47 The Challenge of Solving Climate Change

46:49 The Climate Dad OUTRO.mp4

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Transcript

Mike Smith (00:00)
Hi everyone and welcome again to the climate dad. This is the podcast where we talk about and explain the news and science of climate change and the things that you can do both as an individual and as part of an organization. I'm your host. My name is Mike Smith. I'm a father of two great kids and I'm also the founder of Aclymate It's a business where we help other businesses measure, reduce, report and offset their climate footprint for a really affordable price and without having to become a climate expert. today we're going to be talking about some fun stuff. if you're a nerd like me, things like the.

the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, something I can think of kind of as like the Knights of the Climate Roundtable, and about like living your values in business. I'm gonna be joined by a friend of mine, guy named Russ Stoddard, the founder of Oliver Russell. We're gonna be discussing leadership and intentional business, and I'm also gonna be introducing a new bit at the very end, a climate dad joke So stick around.

Mike Smith (01:06)
I wanted to start today talking about something that many of you may have heard of before, but maybe some of you don't know much about. And for those of it, you do know about it. Maybe you don't feel super connected to it. And it's pretty connected to climate. Specifically, it's the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals or the SDGs. If you've spent like any time in the nonprofit space or around impact focused businesses like B Corps, you may have seen a lapel pin in the shape of a ring.

kind of has like this odd kaleidoscope of different wedges and different colors. And if you didn't know what it is, it's a symbol that's meant to reflect the concepts of the Sustainable Development Goals. These goals are 17 different individual goals for improving the well -being of people across the planet, both now and in the future. The concept first emerged out of the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, that summit looked forward to the 21st century, and they came up with something known as Agenda 21.

About eight years later, that spawned something else called the Millennium Development Goals, released as you'd imagine at the turn of the millennium in 2000. And these, the MDGs or the Millennium Development Goals were focused on global poverty But the current and likely the final form of the SDGs, they were published in 2015. And this happened shortly after I left active duty in the Navy and entered the space myself. As I mentioned, there's 17 goals and they're all interrelated.

Just to briefly list a few. Goal number one is zero hunger. Goal number two is quality education. Goal number seven is affordable and clean energy. Goal nine is sustainable cities and communities. Number 14 is life below water. Number 16 is peace, justice, and strong institutions. And they're all laudable things that like anybody of moral character would enjoy and appreciate. But the thing is,

they're not the only thinking in the space. Separately but relatedly, there's been a school of economic thought that has emerged known as donut economics. I've written about it on my blog before. It's something that's kind of near and dear to my nerdy little heart. And the reason it's called donut economics is because the chief visual that they use in this is kind of a bar graph in a circle. It's ring shaped and as a result, it kind of looks like a donut. But the general concept is this.

that there's a floor of minimum standards that every human on the planet is entitled to, human rights, if you will, and an environmental ceiling beyond which the planet just cannot indefinitely sustain us. And in between those two extremes is this happy medium on which we need to build our civilization. The thing is, you'll often have people that will try to give you a false choice, that to have economic progress, we must sacrifice our environment

or that we must choose between preserving the environment or helping people. And I call that a false choice because bluntly it is. When you look at where we are, the facts make it clear. We are failing to provide for people, both here in the United States and elsewhere, and we are exceeding the environmental carrying capacity of the planet. We are neither taking care of the environment nor taking care of people currently.

And taken to its logical conclusion in this, the, that false choice vein of thought, is that we end up with a Malthusian crash. we will continue to outstrip the resources of the planet until they are gone. And that's, it's just not the way it is. it will doing something like that will cause us to compete for all the last little scraps.

But the reality of our situation is that our world is enough. It's enough to both give people lives of meaning and to preserve our environment. As an example, we'll often hear about how farms need to grow more and more food to feed a hungry planet. like, duh, that's obvious, that's true. Civilization rests upon a bedrock of agriculture. We have to feed the people. But the larger point is false, which is we already grow enough food to feed everyone everywhere, right now.

For example, here in the United States, we waste about 40 % of our food. We could feed, just if we didn't waste that food, another 220 million Americans at the level that we currently enjoy, just by not throwing food in the garbage. If we were to rebalance the amount of food that we feed to animals and deal with the fact that Americans eat actually too many calories, there's an obesity epidemic, we would be able to feed even more.

Add to that advances in agriculture and we really don't need to clear additional land for farming. This world is enough. Even though people say we may need to do this to feed a hungry planet, we already have enough land in agriculture if we maintain it to do more than enough. And so this is just one example of many. And everywhere you look, where people put these choices between protecting the environment and serving economic development,

You'll find that the truth is that the world is not only enough, but that sacrificing the environment is usually unneeded and maybe counterintuitively to kind of the prevailing narrative. By sacrificing the environment, we're not enabling human flourishing, we're harming it. We must protect the environment in order to help humans thrive. Now let's not be Pollyanna about this or simplistic. This is not to say that the world must remain static.

individual environmental trade -offs might not need to be made. But it is to say that in aggregate, we must live within our means to truly succeed. And that is what the Sustainable Development Goals are all about. 17 interlocking goals about how to develop our world responsibly for the benefit of humanity and our environment.

Mike Smith (07:11)
So in talking about the sustainable development goals or the SDGs, the one that is kind of on a lot of people's mind these days is number 13. Specifically, that's climate action. And as you would probably expect by a guy that started a podcast called The Climate Dad, I really care about this one very passionately. I I named it this The Climate Dad for a reason. And the reason for that is this, which is I think climate action is the most important action of all the sustainable development goals.

And I say that not to diminish the importance of the other 16, but that kind of like a Sir Lancelot with the Knights of the Round Table, climate action is the one that will lead where the others must go. Climate really just kind of affects everything. For example, on the second SDG, Zero Hunger, there's overwhelming evidence about climate change causing permanent drought, also known as aridification, across the farmlands of the world. We just talked about how hard it is to feed people.

and that we need to be more thoughtful with our resources. We're seeing the collapse of Indian wheat, for example, right now associated with heat stress. It will get harder to solve hunger when agriculture gets less productive. Let's think about SDG number 11, sustainable cities. Did you know now that there are currently, right now, as we're speaking, there are more displaced people in the world

than ever before in human history. That may kind of shock you because we don't see mass migrations nearly to the extent like we did during World Wars, for example. And the reason that you're not hearing about that is because these mass migrations are currently happening internal to countries. And a lot of that is being driven by agrarian lifestyles that are starting to fail because of environmental pressures. And as those people look for alternatives, they move to the cities within their own countries.

It's almost like mini little dust bowls happening all over the world. Okay, so you have big influxes of people into major metropolitan areas across the world. It's pretty hard to have a sustainable city, that SDG number 11, when the population of that city is growing far faster than any reasonable city manager could plan. You can also make the jump for life on land, and it's pretty obvious there, SDG number 15, but it's also affecting life below water, SDG number

atmospheric CO2 dissolves into the ocean. This causes the ocean to acidify as CO2 dissolved in water becomes, I believe, carbonic acid. And this ocean, this more acidic sea water causes shellfish to have difficulty to form their shells and the coral reefs to build their structures. Speaking of coral, ocean heat waves are causing huge areas of reefs to die as

So, SDG 14, 15 directly tied to climate. Even things that you might not assume like SDG 5, gender equality, and the 10th one, reduced social inequalities. There's good research about how the effects of climate are borne by those lower on the socioeconomic ladder. Namely, that's women and the poor. So, if you care about any of the SDGs, you need to care about climate. Climate affects everything.

And if you want to do something about helping on those other SDGs, you must first stop doing damage from the climate. Climate affects everything.

Mike Smith (10:51)
you appreciate what we're doing here at The Climate Dad? And do wish others would learn more about climate too? Well, I got news for you. You can do something about it right now. Yes, right now as you're listening to my voice. Just go to wherever you're listening to this podcast and do two things. One, please rate our podcast. It's bonus if you leave a little comment about what you like and what we're doing. It can also be a negative review. I'm okay with that. I want to learn from how to do this better.

But whatever you do, please go rate it right now. And then two, super easy. Everywhere you're listening to this podcast, there's the ability to share this podcast. Go ahead and share it with somebody you care about. It could be a family member. It could be a friend. If you really want to make me happy, put it on social media and tell everybody about how you love it. It costs absolutely nothing to do either of these and will help us all in some small way on helping us to make the future a little bit brighter.

Mike Smith (11:50)
One of the things I've learned in my journey through life is really just how important ethics and values are to leading organizations and really just to living a life that you're proud of. When I was a student at the U .S. Naval Academy, we spent a lot of time, as you might imagine, studying ethics and leadership. And I took those issues very seriously at the time, but I was also pretty young and I don't think I had internalized just how important they were going to be until I grew up and learned to appreciate them a little later in life.

As I went on in my military career, like most everyone, I got to see great leaders and often the not so great. These not so great leaders in my estimation, they often thought that they were working from a place of ethics, but it typically seemed to me more kind of like a Hobbesian framework. They were following rules because rules were things that you obeyed and in doing so, they didn't really feel like that there was a whole lot more thought required. They didn't understand why rules existed.

They tended to create punishments instead of justice because they just really hadn't thought about, and again, in my estimation, what justice was. So, you know, how do you tie this back to what you're doing now and about like living your values? Well, you may have watched online Simon Sinek's Start With Why, and it kind of alludes to about mission aligned organizations. The best companies at their core have a mission. If you haven't seen

Mr. Sinek's presentation, really easy, go give it a look. It's a quick video, you can find it online, and I'd really strongly encourage you to do so. Start with why. Why does this company exist? What do we do? Because what Mr. Sinek is really talking about is living your values. And by starting with values, you will provide clarity to your work. This will include little things like a clearer marketing message or better team alignment. But it's also going to give your organization

You can use this very broadly. That organization might be your family. It could be a sports team or of course a company. Anyways, it will give that organization something to work towards and a reason for getting through the hard times. If your organization is not centered around a set of values, I'd really encourage you to start like now. People might accuse you being a bit of a hippie or a boy scout, but at the end of the day, if you don't define your company, somebody else will.

And for me, a big part of living my values has been around climate.

Mike Smith (14:26)
So how about you? Are you ready to live your values on climate and just don't know where to start? Well, we'd love to help you here at Aclymate where we have the easiest, the most affordable solution for your business. We'll show you ways to reduce your carbon footprint and we can get you on the path to net zero. It'll help you win new customers, keep the most valuable ones, attract and retain the talent that you need from the climate generation. And our green business certification program will help you show your climate bona fides and win those certifications from B Corp, EcoVadids

Green Business Benchmark and more. If you mention The Climate Dad you'll get a discount. Now, it's time to meet with today's guest. His name's Russ Stoddard. He's founder of Oliver Russell and also Unit of Impact. He has been living his values for decades. And I really enjoyed thinking about how old fashioned values are finding a resurgence. What's old is new again. And I think you'll enjoy listening to it too.

Mike Smith (15:23)
I'm joined today by my friend and fellow Boisean, Russ Stoddard. He's the president and founder of Oliver Russell, a marketing and branding agency out of Boise there. And also the co -founder of our partner here at Aclymate Unit of Impact, where he helps companies to measure their impact across a variety of categories and make sure that they have a really clean impact reporting system. So

Thank you for joining us today, Russ, here on The Climate Dad

Russ Stoddard (15:48)
Hey, it's great to be with you. Not only a friend, but now my climate dad, right? Hey, daddy.

Mike Smith (15:53)
That's, yeah, right. You know, funny enough, I was at a trade show and I was wearing a shirt that said climate dad and this younger woman like looked me dead in the eye and said like, do you have a shirt like that I can get? And I was like, I don't know, maybe. And then she's like, I want mine to say climate daddy. It got really uncomfortable. You know.

Russ Stoddard (16:15)
I think there's a product in that.

Mike Smith (16:21)
Yeah, probably. So, well, moving on to different things here. Yeah, Russ, you know, I'd love it if you'd introduce yourself. You know, give me a background about who you are, how you got into this, you know, the whole nine yards.

Russ Stoddard (16:32)
sure. Well, you know, I've been involved in the world of impact for about 33 years now. That's when I started Oliver Russell back in the day before CSR was a really big deal. And I came to the business world with a heart for making change. And I think I got a lot out of that of my my earlier.

career as a river guide up in the Idaho wilderness where I learned the value of conservation, learned how to take 24 stakeholders from different groups down a river in an unfamiliar environment, and also learned the value of long hours and hard work getting up at 6 a and going to bed at 11 p which have served me well as an entrepreneur.

Mike Smith (17:28)
I love that. So when you talk about that for the listeners at home, CSR stands for Corporate Social Responsibility. And then also not a whole lot of people appreciate it. Idaho is famous for its white water. The potato, we're obviously famous potatoes on the license plate, but for a little while there, they were thinking about changing the main line to the white water state.

Russ Stoddard (17:49)
Yeah, there are more miles of whitewater in Idaho than any other state. It's pretty pretty blessed with that from the deserts down south to the mountains up north.

Mike Smith (18:00)
Yeah, do you have a favorite run that you've done there, Russ, or you keep doing?

Russ Stoddard (18:05)
yeah, it's the middle fork of the Salmon River, which runs for a hundred plus miles through the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness in the central part of the state.

Mike Smith (18:16)
Yeah, and the reason it's called that is the river of no return is because the river loses elevation so quickly over such a short distance that you just really can't get back up the river. Like you're going, it's a one way trip. Start at the start, you know, you're you're down river the whole time. Well, that's interesting. So how long did you guide? And then like, when did you decide to move from guiding into like corporate Corporate Social Responsibility? that's a bit of a transition.

Russ Stoddard (18:32)
Yep, pretty much.

It is a bit of a transition. I guided for seven years. I transferred that love of rivers to my daughter, who I think has been a river guide for 15 or 16 years now. And how did I make that transition? Well, I guess my my first job out of that and I got to a certain point in time where it's like, OK, you better get started on a career that'll last you for a while.

And one of the first jobs I had was for a very progressive forest products company here in Boise called Trus Joist Corporation. And they were a values -centered business, of which there were not many at that point in time. So they taught me how you could integrate values into the business world. And for me, the value is always trying to figure out a way to...

support your community, make the world a better place. And that started by having an emphasis on conservation and the environment and human rights at my business.

Mike Smith (19:53)
Interesting. So you essentially went straight into conservation and Corporate Social Responsibility with Trus Joist And it's interesting you talk about values and about I think there's a kind of a what's old is new again. The idea that like your business was part of a community. It wasn't just the bottom line for the next quarter. It was about like kind of building value for not only the owners, but also the employees and the community around you.

So it's interesting, how long has Trus Joist been around, for example?

Russ Stoddard (20:26)
Trus Joist was founded in I believe 1966 and it got acquired in the early 1990s by Weyerhaeuser

they had a progressive CEO, Walt Minnick, and he kind of led the company in this area. And even though it's forest products back in the day when, you know, there's a lot of turmoil in the forest, the spotted owl controversy and what have you, he figured out a way to make environmental conservation a part of the company's brand. And

basically provided for me a real model for how you might be able to do that, take a stand as a company. And that's really what values are all about. It's not just something you put on a poster and put up on the lunchroom wall or what have you. It's actually how you live your business above and beyond simply making a financial profit.

Mike Smith (21:20)
Gotcha. Now is this the same Walt Minnick that became a congressman?

Russ Stoddard (21:24)
It is the one and same, yep.

Mike Smith (21:27)
So it's interesting about how a guy that focuses on community went on to kind of like greater service there. Okay, so you worked for Trus Joist for a while, kind of foundational to like that transition into the corporate world from, your guiding experience. Well, how'd you move from there into what you're doing now?

Russ Stoddard (21:46)
you know, I think I just had the entrepreneurial itch. It wasn't the smartest of moves. I jumped overboard from Trus Joist without looking first. At the point in time, I also had a small outdoor store here in town with a

my then wife and it was failing. We had a four year old and we had a four month old. I had just gotten on the stock option and bonus program for executives at Trus Joist. And I came home from a wedding in Portland and had a lot of time to think on that eight hour drive and announced to my wife when I got back from that wedding that I was quitting and I went in on Monday and.

told Walt Minnick I was quitting and I had it kind of all conjured up in my mind, a plan for how I could keep them as a client. And I laid it out for him and I said, what do you think? And he said, I don't know. And I went home to my wife who had our four week old in her arms. And she said, so what did Walt say? And I said, he said, I don't know. And she looked at me and said, you're shitting me. And...

Long story short, everything worked out, but I was just like ready to start my own business.

Mike Smith (23:10)
I see. And so that was Oliver Russell that you started.

Russ Stoddard (23:14)
That was Oliver Russell, 1991.

Mike Smith (23:16)
Okay. One of my favorite jokes about being an entrepreneur is that we don't do this because it's easy. We did it because we thought it would be. So it sounds like you kind of had that and your wife was maybe rightfully a little bit more skeptical. Walt too, you know, tell me about kind of the early experiences of your life at Oliver Russell.

Russ Stoddard (23:26)
hahaha

As I said, we started out with as a values based business and one of those core tenants was to be socially responsible. When we do a new client pitch, I would always lead with that. And not many clients back then were accustomed to hearing a prospective agency talk about their values and their commitment to the community and what have you. And I'll never forget.

one prospective client that came in for a pitch. And then I heard Boise is a very small place or certainly it was back in the early 90s. I heard after that, the feedback, we didn't get them as a client, but the feedback was, you know, really sharp agency, great ideas and everything, but boy, what a bunch of hippies.

Mike Smith (24:30)
Yeah, I bet. Well, but you stayed with it. So like, it sounds like it initially it wasn't like always the biggest selling point, but you stayed with it. Why?

Russ Stoddard (24:41)
It's in my heart. You know, I certainly could have, you know, been in the nonprofit world. I think I've started probably six or seven nonprofits, served on a number of boards, but I actually like the challenge of the for -profit world and wanted to see if in some small way I could bend it to my will as far as creating a for -profit business that valued planet and people just as much as it did profits. So...

I just stuck with it. I have to make a profit. I'm not a huge money guy when it comes down to it. I'm reminded of that each and every day as I see things in the national news. I'm just like, wow, is a billion really not enough for you? And why are you doing things in the way that you're doing? And...

For me, that's just not never been the big motivator. It was like hey, can I use business to help people? And the firm belief that I was born and put on this planet to help and serve others.

Mike Smith (25:48)
Well, so you mentioned there about people, planet and profit. Sometimes that's referred to as like the triple bottom line. So it's more than just like, you know, your your you know, dividends to ownership. So, you know, broadly, that's corporate Corporate Social Responsibility moved into kind of a term of potentially ESG or Environmental Social Governance focus there. But in a very broad sense, it's about impact.

And that's been a big part about like what you do. You've also started, like we talked at the beginning there, a second company called Unit of Impact about like helping people to measure and report the impact of their work. Maybe you could tell me a little bit more about Unit of Impact.

Russ Stoddard (26:32)
sure I will. I'll go back just a little bit because it lays the groundwork for a Unit of impact. In December of 2011, I certified as a B Corporation. For your viewers here who may or may not be familiar with that, that's an assessment that you go through that's quite rigorous and it assesses your performance on environmental and social impact. And...

If you reach a certain minimum threshold, you're certified as a B Corporation. It gave me a fantastic holistic look at what a company actually could do in order to try and change business for the good. And I've been quite involved in that movement ever since. So fast forward to the pandemic 2020.

sitting around trying to figure out what to do because there wasn't much business coming in the door at the time. And I got together with a woman named Polina Pinchevsky who has a certified B Corporation in Maryland called Round Peg. And we started kicking around ideas for what we might do in the way of creating a business to serve the community. And we came up with this idea of a Unit of Impact And what it is is it's a platform.

to help small businesses measure and manage their impact, but just as importantly, report it. Tell the story of the good works they're doing in their communities and for the planet and for the people who work at their businesses. We were joined a few months later by Alisa Herr of Unity.

a web agency, which is also a certified B Corporation in Raleigh, North Carolina. So that's the genesis of how three B Corporations came together to start unit of.

Mike Smith (28:35)
Gotcha. So for those that aren't familiar with B Corp, they're kind of like the next evolution almost in my opinion of like the Better Business Bureau thinking about like that there's a way that we can adhere to the kind of the triple bottom line. And they started early on with this B Impact Assessment and kind of a point scoring system for that. But they truly are the thought leaders in the green business certification like place.

of different opportunities because they think about the triple bottom line and how they connect to each other. And the B Impact Assessment is being revised this year to require climate accounting every year. And it's not a kind of an optional thing where you can get points. It's something that you have to do because they've really leaned into how fundamental climate is to kind of what we're working on.

And a lot of the other green business certification programs like EcoVadis and Green Business Benchmark are also doing that as well. And some of our customers have had the chance to use that to get there as well. So with climate, kind of a little bit more central to like what you're doing as B Corp's and then also with at Unit of Impact, talk to me about like your own personal journey on climate and then as a business owner and a leader within your community.

Russ Stoddard (29:56)
personal journey. geez, it's probably not unlike that of many people, you know, always been involved in our environmental issues and what have you. And this this beast called climate change was always looming out there. And, you know, the scientists were well onto it decades ago. And so I've been following along with it. But then, you know, all of a sudden.

shit starts getting real and you see these massive and intensive climate events around the world and realize like, wow, maybe we need to move this to the front burner, so to speak, and pay more attention to it and act upon it. Because if you think, say, like the United Nations and the Sustainable Development Goals, they've got 17 goals there that we need to basically

reach as a planet to become sustainable. And climate action is one of them. And to my way of thinking, if we can't solve the climate action one, none of the rest of them matter because it affects absolutely everything, absolutely everything. So my journey went from being one of sitting on the sidelines to trying to become more of an advocate to employing techniques here, you know, here at work.

certifying using Aclymate to actually manage our carbon emissions and offset those to, my wife and I have a small farm and we employ regenerative farming practices there. So I've learned a lot about how the way we treat the earth actually contributes to or minimizes carbon emissions.

Mike Smith (31:50)
Love it. What do you find exciting about dealing with climate?

Russ Stoddard (31:55)
You know, the people I get to work with on it. It's really the network of people who care and are actually integrating this into their personal lifestyles and into their companies as well. That's really the exciting thing and I actually feel as if at the end of the day, I'm doing what I'm able to and hopeful that others will as well, recognizing full well that...

Technology might play a role in some regards, but I don't think that Elon Musk is really suited to save the planet. And I also think that our governments need to play a role as far as regulations go. So it's like starting to see a lot of different pieces and parts come together that's exciting. Bottom line though, it's the people like you and others that I get to work with shoulder to shoulder on climate.

Mike Smith (32:49)
Yeah, it's one of the things I talk about occasionally is that if you have this sense of that it's all going to hell in a hand basket, get involved, you'll feel better. You'll meet good people that are doing the work and you'll see that actually we are making some progress. It's just a little bit more hidden than it needs to be. On the flip side, what do you find difficult? What do you find confounding or a total headache when you're dealing with your climate footprint?

Russ Stoddard (33:15)
well, you know, that's the flip side of my answer before, which is you look at it and go like, it's not enough. What I'm doing just isn't enough, right? So I don't think there's anything that's physically or financially daunting about what I'm able to do. I think it's just one of those deals, Mike, where...

I feel like I can't do enough. And I look at a lot of the people in companies that are huge and have the resources to actually make change. And I'm like, come on, you knuckleheads. Get with the program here. This is not something that you can just take the short -term profits today and rob generations for.

So like you have kids, I've got kids, I've got grandkids and what have you. And I start looking at, especially the grandkids, it's like, what the hell kind of a planet are we going to leave to them with, you know, climate refugees, civil unrest, you know, just the pain of it all. So that's really what I find challenging is thinking about that sort of stuff and keeping a positive attitude on.

Mike Smith (34:36)
Yeah, that is a challenge. It's one of those things where even though we are making progress, success is also retreating from us about as fast as we're moving forward. So that's a challenge. One of the things I talk about sometimes is that if you're making exponential growth on impact, you're going to feel like you're losing until you're about halfway there. So if you're growing, let's say you're doubling every three years your impact.

Russ Stoddard (34:43)
Yep.

Mike Smith (35:03)
means you're going to feel like you're losing until you're about three years out. And so there's a little bit of a question of faith almost about like how can we keep moving forward and that faith sometimes goes into thinking about all the people that are around you and the relationships that you can leverage to help move this forward. I always say that like it takes many soldiers to make an army and we you know we need an army of people working on climate and people are joining the ranks all the time.

Russ Stoddard (35:33)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, and it's that long -term perspective that you have to keep. And oftentimes, you know, whether it's corporations on a quarter -to -quarter basis or individuals who need a little instant gratification, it can be tough. So it's having that longer -term perspective.

Mike Smith (35:54)
Got it. Let's switch gears a little bit. Let's talk about, you know, you're an impact guy, you're a branding and marketing guy. Let's talk about like the impact of climate work and how that affects brand.

Russ Stoddard (36:10)
What I can say is that all things being equal, hands down, and across generations, people will go to work at a company that has strong values for environmental and social purpose that align with theirs, absolutely. And it's a great recruiting tool as well.

Mike Smith (36:33)
Where do you think like the green business certification programs and B Corp more specifically are going? I know you're active in your local, B Corp community.

Russ Stoddard (36:43)
Well, they're growing like crazy, whether it's like the Green Business Bureau or B Corp. I can tell you we were B Corp about number 400 and this summer it will probably crest 10 ,000 B Corps. I think it's growing at between 20 and 30 ,000 and while that's still just a very, very small fraction of the businesses around the globe, it's showing some.

very powerful growth. I think one of the concerns I have is that there are so many certifications that are blossoming that it gets somewhat diluted in the mind of consumers, whether that's a shopper, an investor, or a worker, it's hard to keep track of what the different certifications are and what they truly stand for.

Mike Smith (37:38)
There is some, one of the things around like the B Corp brand is that it struggled in its early days for people to even understand what it was, but that younger generations, there's a fairly large degree of understanding it. Something like greater than 50 % of Gen Z understands what a B Corp is. Have you seen that in your experience?

Russ Stoddard (38:01)
for sure. I mean, my on the ground experience backs up the research that's been done by a B lab, And I think where you're seeing a lot of that power exhibited is on storage shelves particularly if it's something that.

If it's a product you put in your mouth or if it's a product you put on your skin, then that little circle B stamp on the product packaging really means a lot. So we're seeing a lot of growth there.

Mike Smith (38:30)
What is something that everyone in your industry should start or stop doing?

Russ Stoddard (38:36)
well, if you looked at our industry broadly as advertising, I'd say quit greenwashing, whether it's about your own agency and the work that it's doing or the types of clients that you are working with. So you got, you know, first of all, if you say that you're for people and planet, you don't back it up with your own actions. That's not good.

And then second of all, if you're willing to take money from people and companies and corporations that are operating diametrically opposed to your values, then you need to suck it up and basically withdraw from those sort of engagements because you're adding to the problem, not helping solve.

Mike Smith (39:27)
I love that, putting your values right out there, right in front, man, you have to live them.

Russ Stoddard (39:32)
And it's tough too because, you know, it can hurt financially and you have to be willing to walk away and make decisions that give you some pain. But, you know, if standing up for your values doesn't cause you pain every now and then, then they really aren't values.

Mike Smith (39:54)
I would agree with that. I also think that there's, in the short term, you may feel some pain, but in the longer term, generally doing the right thing pays off.

Russ Stoddard (40:04)
absolutely. Time and time again. You just have to make it through those tough short -termers.

Mike Smith (40:09)
Yeah, so if it's any consolation, doing the right thing in the short term may hurt, but strategically, you're setting yourself up, most likely for much greater success. So yeah, great. Stop supporting people that are doing damage. What's a status quo that you reject?

Russ Stoddard (40:28)
Good question. Status quo that I reject. I guess this go right back to the overall tone and theme of what we've been discussing is that businesses can't be profitable and actually intentionally help solve social and environmental problems. I reject the notion that.

of shareholder primacy and embrace the notion of stakeholder activism, which is to look at a number of stakeholders with positive outcomes rather than just generating a financial profit. And I believe the two can exist very well together.

Mike Smith (41:15)
Yeah, maybe you could educate the listeners a little bit about the difference between a shareholder and a stakeholder.

Russ Stoddard (41:19)
Okay, shareholder is someone who is an investor or has a financial stake in your company. And stakeholders can be everything from the community you live in, your neighbors, the workers, who you employ, the environment. I mean, that's everything from whether it's grizzly bears or wild rivers.

clean water and what have you. So that's the way you look at it and your suppliers as well.

Mike Smith (41:56)
I think that's great. I think one of the ways I think of shareholders versus stakeholders is that shareholders are short -term and narrowly focused and stakeholders are broader and longer term. And so to think across even potentially generations, but also just like, just think of the broad impact, positive and negative of your organization and to minimize the negative and to maximize the positive.

while at the same time running a profitable business because that's what business has to do and included in the stakeholder group are the shareholders.

Russ Stoddard (42:27)
Yeah.

And that's a key word you added across generations. I think that's really at the heart of it is to think generationally about your business. You know, oftentimes private family -held businesses will do that, have a far longer perspective. Certainly we don't see a lot of that in the public markets and what have you. But if you think about the world you'd like to create and the shade of the tree that you're planting, many, many...

years down the road, that's really at the heart of it.

Mike Smith (43:01)
It's a, I tie back to a little bit of my time in the Navy about like, you know, within the military, specifically in the Marine Corps, they talked about that leaders eat last. And so it's about putting the needs of others first in order to move the mission forward. And maybe, you know, we don't have to be quite so martial as far as the way that we need to do this, but I think this is a natural inclination that when people own their own business, they, the best ones think about, you know, their impact across everybody else.

If you were going to write a book, what would it be about?

Russ Stoddard (43:36)
Dude, I already wrote a book. It's called Rise Up, How to Build a Socially Conscious Business. Surprise, surprise, right? I took kind of my life's learnings in the business and put them down on paper. And it's been out for about five years now. And holy smokes, I get a sale, probably a sale a day. So it's...

Mike Smith (43:38)
Okay.

Russ Stoddard (44:02)
It's an Amazon bestseller in the category. I'm not going to retire off it, but it provides kind of a template for someone starting down the path of building a business that has social environmental impact at its heart.

Mike Smith (44:17)
I love it. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. Other than Amazon, any other places you recommend buying it?

Russ Stoddard (44:23)
you could buy it at Powell's Bookstore in Portland, Oregon, which is one of my absolute favorite bookstores in the world. And I believe you can buy it at Rediscovered Books here in Boise, Idaho as well to both of those independent booksellers.

Mike Smith (44:41)
Love the independent booksellers. And if you're a fan of them as well, give it a look. Ask for Rise Up to be on the shelf if it's not. And we'll go with that. Russ, it's been great chatting with you today. I appreciate your thought leadership on this and your long -term commitment to kind of values -based organizations and your authorship on the subject as well. Thanks for joining The Climate Dad.

Russ Stoddard (45:07)
You bet. Well, I appreciate it, Mike, and I also appreciate all that you're doing at Aclymate as well. It's made managing our carbon emissions very simple and easy and affordable. And also a quick shout out to Travis there at Aclymate for all the help he's given us.

Mike Smith (45:26)
Yeah, Travis is our I refer to him as sunshine because he's just a happy guy that loves solving problems. So yeah, I'll tell Travis you gave him a shout out. All right, take care, Russ.

Russ Stoddard (45:35)
Okay, thanks, man.

Mike Smith (45:45)
Russ is a man who lives his values on climate. Man, as a result, he's really actually found a lot of happiness. You just can't miss it when you talk to the guy. And I like that. Thanks again to Russ for joining me. Anyways, do you have a question that we should answer or a guess that we should interview? Go to Aclymate .com and send us an email to theclimatedad@Aclymate.com to submit a question or introduce us to a potential guest for the show. As always, Aclymate spelled A -C -L -Y -A -T -E.

If your business doesn't have a sustainability expert and needs help measuring, reducing, reporting, or offsetting your company's climate footprint, please reach out to my team here at Aclimate and we'll get you set up with the best, most affordable, and easiest climate solution. We'll be back next time with a breakdown of all things climate with another guest. Make sure to subscribe to the Climate Dad where you get your podcasts and to share, like, and comment on social media. And now here's your Climate Dad

What do you call a mathematical equation to solve climate change?

an Al Gore Rhythm I'll see you next time.

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