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Want to learn how your business can become carbon neutral? Our guest this week, Mike Smith with Aclymate, talks through how you can shift into carbon neutrality.
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Welcome to taking care in business a
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podcast I created out of my passion for using business as a Force for good from environmental practices to social
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impacts and all that follows within the realm of corporate social responsibility I'm always curious about how
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organizations are taking care in business
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[Music] well hello everyone today we are going
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to talk about something that I have been reading a lot about in the news um I think I've shared before that
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Bolson group my company is carbon neutral but I've been getting these I
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don't know emails and reading articles about something called Net Zero and so
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today I've invited Mike Smith who is the co-founder and CEO of a company called
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Aclymate and just so you all know that's spelled AC okay
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a-c-l-y-m-a-t-e right Mike that's right okay and he also which I want to talk
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about this is the co-founder of a company called renew West and this is
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cool the developer of the largest restoration project in U.S history uh
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yeah carbon carbon focused reforestation yeah yeah so cool so cool so I think you
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are really well suited to talk about this so thanks for joining me today Mike
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I really do appreciate it yeah it's it's uh it's great to be here and I'm looking forward to meeting with you today great
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great well so let's just start off with what I already said I really wanted to talk about which is what is the
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difference between carbon neutrality and Net Zero sure uh so just briefly so
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carbon neutrality is the concept of like you know what your emissions footprint is and you buy some offsets in order to kind of make up for that in my
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background as a as in tree planting with renew West and where that company is is continuing to go is uh is broadly we
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were carbon offset project developers it's a space I'm really well familiar with and though carbon offsets have within the marketplace have been coming
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under some increasing scrutiny here recently there's still like a really and importantly they should be they're also
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a really important part of a kind of like our path to the our our future when there is no climate future without us
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doing a lot of these restoration and preservation uh uh projects there's some
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like really big limitations around carbon offsets the first one is is that um with perfect adoption of carbon
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offset projects in the natural world across the entire planet you're still only going to get to about 20 of the world's current emissions
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uh two is the carbon offsets uh have frequently been used by not the most
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forthright players uh in the marketplace um folks that are looking to use offsets as a way to kind of get out of taking
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care of their their bigger responsibilities and so uh some of the pushback that's been around carbon
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offsets is like how do you actually do the harder thing than the more important thing which is to reduce your emissions
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uh the emissions associated with you know uh your work your personal life Etc
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and so um what that introduced was is this requirement that uh in order to avoid
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being seen as a green washing company it's not just enough to do offsets you also need to do the harder thing first
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which is the emissions reductions and so Net Zero is this is the concept of how do you marry these two together
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um which is how do you both cut your emissions year on year to get to this point where
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um you are down to the most essential emissions that like you just can't get away from right now because there's
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limitations in technology Etc um so typically Net Zero is seen as
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trying to align broadly with the Paris climate Accords um and the player the Paris climbed Accords talk about that we need to
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effectively be to 90 reduction of worldwide emissions by the year 2050 in
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order to have any hope of maintaining a 1.5 C uh you know total warming future
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that 90 um they call it Net Zero because at that point there will be enough reforestation
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projects Force preservation grassland soils mangroves you fill in the blank
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that we will have enough carbon capture from the atmosphere that that it will balance out in a way that's meaningful
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um and beyond that that will actually be capturing carbon from the atmosphere will actually more than we'll be
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emitting and slowing it down um but the important part of Net Zero is the pathway
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um and very specifically um you know there's large corporate things like the science-based targets
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initiative or the task force for carbon disclosures and like some of these others but like the general idea is is
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that you can't say like will be Net Zero by 2050 amid all you want till 2049 and then be
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like yep okay we'll magically cut it there's like a harder pathway and so what that looks like is that roughly
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uh humans have to cut 50 of their emissions every decade for the next three decades so we have to get to a
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reduction by 50 by 2030 by 50 of that so
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down 75 total by you know 2040 and then roughly another 50 by 2050.
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um it's maybe actually a little bit faster 55 60 per decade and we're already you know uh
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uh three you know years into this decade and so we're behind the eight ball a little bit on this one and so the goal
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here on Net Zero for any you know small to medium-sized business and why we you know we work on it here at Aclymate is
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is that you got we you have to give people both tools you have to give them the tools to to both reduce their emissions in a way that's meaningful
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they can see it they can move Beyond assumptions and get real data to start doing those things and the responsible
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part of that is is while you're cutting those emissions those essential emissions right now that you just can't quite get rid of yet
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like you need to be offsetting them um but the priority is start with emissions reductions then go to the offsetting
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okay I get it I that makes total sense so okay that just brought up a lot of
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questions so is this a good example I was buying a plane ticket for my daughter to come
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home for another daughter's High School graduation and they asked me as I was ending my purchase if I wanted to offset
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and I thought huh this is so interesting I sort of feel
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like I'm helping them with their carbon neutrality but what are they promising
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to do for for this up front like and and so I
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didn't do it I didn't make the donation or whatever because I wanted to go in and do some more research but to me
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that's green washing yeah you know it's a little bit sometimes it feels like uh you know when
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you uh you're checking out of the grocery store and then they ask you like would you like to give a dollar to St Jude's or something right and you're
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like well yeah I like you know I like kids that are sick and want them to be better I'd want to give a dollar but then you're like you also like when you
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dig down you recognize that they claim that as a charitable contribution and you're like you know hold the phone like
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no no like I'm not doing your dirty work you know like yes that is this is
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that's exactly how I felt like you know it's like a quick a quick you know grab
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without any disclosure you know yeah so um you know that's one of the problems with carbon offsets um and why in our
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Marketplace we try to give you as much selection as possible and you can actually see what you're doing historically there's been a lot of
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opacity to it and that you don't really know what you're getting involved with right you know there are some airlines
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that I've seen that have uh have started I think United for example has a way that you can invest in their
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uh sustainable Aviation fund which is not a carbon offset it doesn't really
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um it's also kind of like well no United like you're a pretty profitable company you should go do this yourself right like but specifically within kind of the
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aviation sector like if you look at like reports from like the Rocky Mountain Institute about like how they decarbonize yeah there's like some big
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like they divided like the quad the four quadrants of like the problem into an
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offsetting scheme known as uh corsia um sustainable aviation fuel uh the
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third quadrant was unspecified future Tech and the fourth was question mark like so there's a lot of ways that like
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this is kind of the essential emissions question for like an airline is is like they've got to start rapidly to carbonizing they don't know how they're
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going to get there yet now you know the world changes a lot in 30 years um and so you know by the 2050 hopefully
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they figured a lot of this out um but in the meantime you know from an individual's standpoint from a business
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owner's standpoint one of the things that you should think about is like what are your substitutes for flying right do
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you have to do this is this truly essential travel you know and if it is essential traveler are there lower carbon solutions to it I mean even
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um just picking from one airline to the next um you may spend more money on one Airline
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but it may be a more carbon efficient uh plane it may be a more carbon efficient route
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um you know eliminating layovers is an important part of that right because most of the fuel is burned in the in the
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the takeoff and climb to altitude yeah so um there's just a lot of things that are kind of in there and it can kind of
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drive you crazy trying to think through all those things yeah it's interesting and I I did notice
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not this time but another time I don't even think I noticed this last time but another time I was buying tickets I
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noticed like a an emissions chart you know so I was I could right there on the
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screen determine which one was the the most environmental purchase of a flight
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and I thought that's kind of cool and I just I wonder there's just I don't know
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that's it I know that flying is one of the main things you know that we can cut back on I'm just as is driving
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um you know and I do want to talk about some of those things that just the everyday person can do to to offset
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carbon emissions but um let's let's skip to this whole thing of so you you buy these offsets right
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um which is I I love how you explained it that you the net zero is actually
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doing things to reduce your emissions and then identifying what you can't change right now and then buying the
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offsets so both group we did this whole analysis with the company we are working
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with where we answered questions about how much we fly how much we travel help
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our commute to work what we eat I mean products we use all kinds of things and
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they came up with our um carbon um footprint and then they
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kept track of it or they gave us an estimate for our our payments or whatever we made monthly payments and at
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the end of the year I asked for an impact report and the thing that really got me was that I I was told how many
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trees we essentially planted or how many cars we got off the road
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but the thing that really was just a little bit of a uh I don't know
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what's a disconnect for me was that where were the trees planted like you
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know what kind of cars did we take off the road it just seems so I don't know like out there in la la land do I would
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imagine people have problems with that unless they know that they are buying
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offsets in one of your restoration you know your reforestation projects so is
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that kind of the disconnect for people that they feel like I feel like you need to know where you're planning your where your trees like what are you what are
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you offsetting specifically yeah absolutely um so the first thing is and like this is a
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common point of confusion is that like so um the standard unit of measurement for uh for emissions is a metric ton of
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carbon dioxide or it's equivalent and like that like the the unit is tco2e
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and like that just makes people's eyes roll back yeah I mean what on Earth is that number right I don't need to know
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that I need to know specifics yeah and so then they try to give you a two unit equivalencies of like that would be like
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the equivalent of X number of trees growing for 50 years well what kind of tree where is it at like you know and so
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like and so like those equivalencies themselves are an attempt at trying to make something
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um uh tangible that is is is is fairly academic and and uh
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uh you know quantitative um one of the ways I like to think about it is um around
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um have you ever heard of like the donut theory of economics
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so the general idea is so it's this new thing like they're like
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the the Dutch in particular are pretty uh avant-garde in this but the general idea is um it kind of lines with like
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the un's like sustainable development goals which is the general idea is is that like um there's this floor of basic human
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rights that everybody has a right to Food Water Shelter Etc but there's also
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this economic this ecological ceiling um that we can't go beyond um and what I like about that um just as
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a way to kind of like to to create illustrations for for like what is your emissions
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footprint is to show like how many earths would it take for if everybody lived this way right is to kind of give you like a real
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sense of like okay this is my shared ownership of it right you you know
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you're living you're living the life of you know to give you like a great example like that makes it like really
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clear your refrigerator here in the United States if it's an average refrigerator
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uh consumes more electricity than the average of three Nigerians right and so like just like to like to
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put into cons context like how much three Nigerians their whole lives
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everything that they do right okay yeah no yeah that really puts it into perspective right so you get to you get
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to those equivalencies I think are like more meaningful than like yeah so many trees right now there's a separate
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problem to what you're also asking there which is like these equivalencies don't mean you're actually planting trees
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right they're just trying to give it to you in a way that like is something that you can kind of like well I know what a tree looks like that's much that much
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tree right um but there's also the offset and usually the offsets are like especially
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if it's a corporate offset they're just kind of like here's uh trust us we're buying this bundle
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right and so there's a lot of reasons for that um
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um but you know generally the they it just helps them in their
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their procurement that if they don't have to like explain too much about that and so
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um our preference um and most of our customers preference is that they get to see where they're buying their offset
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from they get to know the offset project they can actually go find it on a map you know and you can learn the story of
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it and it doesn't have to be just about planting trees it could be about Forest preservation it could be about like
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um like cooked stoves in Africa you know which has like some really strong you know developing world you know
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attributes and then also like women's health issues because it's typically you know women in the developing world that are doing these cooking uh activities
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and so you know just there's a lot more about like an offset project than pure
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accounting of just like what's the you know what's my missions here how much do I need to buy there's also like these I
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call them co-benefits that you really um that resonate you know different amounts of different people
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yeah wow that's that that's helpful what you just explained I would rather know
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that you know the I don't know I I don't want to know that I use
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uh just in the course of using my refrigerator that that that is equivalent to three Nigerian
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people's life of of emissions that is that is like
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that's Overkill like that I just need to unplug my fridge right now and go to a cooler or something well so that's
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that's the tone of theory of Economics which is like the reason they don't use that much electric electricity is
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because a lot of Nigerians don't have refrigerators right and so like the donut Theory here is like no they deserve that like they
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you have a minimum quality of life that they deserve it's like they need a refrigerator right but like just so you don't need to go
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unplug your refrigerator but you know maybe if we could think a little bit about about like some of the things where we do have a lot of waste and just
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be like you know what every time I don't do this wasteful thing like you know I'm doing a little bit more of my part so
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those folks that don't have refrigeration in their lives yeah right
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like we all have to kind of like there's a little bit of a shared responsibility for us all to to make it there
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absolutely I um have tried to commit to 10 new things
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every year that I'm going to do and you know I have to kind of dig deep and get obscure you know like I'm trying to
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think some of them this year I mean kind of the basics you know of making my own
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cleaning supplies um unplugging things when I leave the room which is a hard one to do you know
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um but like there you can really just start digging deep you know and and so
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let's talk about that a little bit I know from the carbon neutral assessment
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that we did to arrive at our you know Carbon neutrality
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um we had to answer questions and my whole team came to me afterwards and was just stunned by the things that we had
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to answer you know so it is kind of shocking um but when you really think about it they make sense you know things like you
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know how much meat are you eating and things like that like you're like what how do I figure that out and why does
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that matter then you think about it like of course it matters and so so there's there's what we eat
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what we dried how we travel how we you know um what work I mean are we driving to
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work working from home tell me some of the other like give a few tips on things that people can do to
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really address the climate yeah absolutely uh so the first one is as you probably have a lot of assumptions but
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you should stress test them a little bit um and so find something that helps to if you've already done a
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climate accounting you you've identified this but you haven't get a baseline figure it out
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um you know one of the things we pride ourselves on Aclymate is having a very affordable you a very approachable
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you don't have to have any climate expertise you just have to show up wanting to to learn and it doesn't take
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very long you know that you know it usually takes about 10 minutes to onboard and then it's about five to ten minutes a month to use the software
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that's a great first step you don't have to solve The World's problems you just need to start to figure out where you
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know what your footprint is as a business and then we're also coming out with an individual calculator as well to help people with that that individual
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calculator will be free by the way too that's super cool
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um so super excited about that um in general
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um one of the big things that an individual needs to think about um is uh Electrify everything
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so one of the places that in our our economy that's decarbonizing the fastest
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now that renewable energy is not only like price competitive but actually price advantaged like it is
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um it's in most cases in the United States now it's cheaper to install new uh solar or wind projects than it is to
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maintain an existing coal plant so because of that rapid decarbonization
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that's happening there all the things that you use for uh that don't use electricity but could you should so
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Heating uh water heaters uh for example um if uh Transportation so if you can
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afford an electric vehicle and they're actually pretty affordable if you look for the right ones I have a little 2017 Chevy bolt and I love it
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like that's a really great way to like immediately get some like big steps in there um even if you were to plug your
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electric vehicle directly into a Coal Power Plant just the if the efficiencies of electricity versus an internal
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combination engine that alone is probably more efficient than the vehicle you're driving um and and electricity is getting
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cleaner every day so that's a really great first step um diet is a big part of it
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um you know and you don't have to you know Go full vegan and like and and worry about that you know but like my
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wife and I we like to think of ourselves as like part-time vegetarians you know we eat meat like three times a week you
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know by the way it's good for my heart so like it's it like it works out really well and like
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yeah you know my blood pressure's down so it's great at a restaurant but only cook vegetarian at home yeah yeah
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exactly or maybe only a week on the on the weekends or you know like I'm still gonna have like a nice ham for for uh uh
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for Easter yeah you know but like most the time like I'm eating vegetables that's okay that's good grow gardening
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yep um so uh diet's a big component of that and then just uh the things that
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you buy have a lot of emissions associated with that and so you know the that old adage from Earth Day in like
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1970 have reduced reuse recycle like that really matters like reduce the things that you're buying try to buy
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things that last you know spend the money up front fast fashion you know for example is a terrible idea buy clothes
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that last for years and and then when they develop a little bit of a tear see if you can repair them you know you'll
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have nicer clothes it'll all work out the long run you'll save money you know as well but um but try to reduce the amount of
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things that you buy uh as well what doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think the carbon emissions of
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your food are not so much about like where they're grown as much as what they are right so Less meat because for example
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it takes 40 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef it's like three to five pounds of grain for every pound of
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chicken right if you can just eat that that is just a huge degree of efficiency
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if you're just eating that grain or vegetable equivalent itself um and so like if you're buying produce
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that's actually shipped to you from Chile um that is probably better than buying
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beef that was grown across the street um you know there's so there's a lot of things that are kind of counterintuitive
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about like yeah you know where where it all comes from um either way what I love
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about what you're doing Vicky is that you kind of pick like a few things to do every year like you don't you don't have to tackle them all like this Net Zero is
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a journey right and so like start with making your own like Net Zero
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commitment start with figuring out what your footprint is it doesn't take that much time and it'll get you to thinking about it and then pick one or two things
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that like are just small behavioral changes yeah and that's that gets you started yeah and you know I I try to
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encourage people to do that because I honestly just it I feel better you know
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I feel better on a daily basis when I go collect you know when I get my dog's water from the rain water I collect or I
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hang dry my clothes instead of using my dryer I mean I sort of feel like a little Pioneer lady over here sometimes
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and I get teased quite a bit but I'm not even that hardcore I have somebody at my office who's going to be editing this
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and uh she is we call her our Homesteader she is she is so committed
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and she gives us all wonderful ideas but it all does matter and it's really scary
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it's really really scary to think what needs to be done and we have to all be we have to all be
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a part of it um okay I want to segue to my final question which is okay so how Aclymate
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works I know you have the free assessment tool which is fantastic I know you can get like a demo and you can
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talk with a person um complementarily to gather information to see if it's a fit for you
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um early in the conversation you talked about how the importance of Net Zero is that you're working to reduce what you
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can while offsetting so what are you guys doing in the net zero space like
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are you Consulting with companies to help them figure out that while they're also you know doing their offsets how
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does that work yeah sure so um the problem that we saw was is that a lot of
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people will spend a lot of money with Consultants um to do just kind of the Baseline accounting um and at the end of the day like there
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are usually several thousand dollars the poor they have a nice little report and maybe they see the consultant a year or later but they have to kind of budget
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for it um and that um there's a couple big problems with that the first one is is that
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um the consultant's doing a lot of things that they that can really be automated and they're smart people that like can actually like like once they
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get like the numbers then they can do the advice uh part of things they don't really love that work um so we thought we could automate that
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and that's what we did with Aclymate is there's a lot of like how can we collect this information in a way that like you
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don't have to have any expertise you don't have to have a consultant come in much much more affordable for kind of
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like your getting started point right yeah um and so we part of that is that
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we've tried to design the software and so a way that we can kind of almost like incept into your brain like where your emissions are coming from in really high
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color like oh okay that's purple that's a lot of office emissions or oops that's you know orange that's a lot of
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operational emissions and so you can look at it without having to like get very quantitative
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right um so uh that's the first thing that we do
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um we will uh we do have a concierge service if people are looking for kind of like that ongoing like kind of
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Consulting aspect still like cheaper than a consultant as well uh but we we
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also see this as something where we can work hand in hand with a preferred consultant you know where this can be their uh their tool you know for you to
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ongoing like see that that fixes the second problem which is the ongoing uh which is like if you say
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okay well we've got to reduce this well you know uh the consultant
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generally is not diving down to like okay who's taking these flights or or who's got the long commute you know like
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actually figuring out where that is and you can start to see like okay well you know uh Jack really you know doesn't
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really need to drive an F-150 40 miles one way you know maybe he can carpool with Anna or maybe he can like it
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actually turns out there's a bus line there we can buy him a bus pass and that's just about as fast you know like there's like things that
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you when you start being able to like pull that apart and look at the data yeah yeah attribute it and then you get
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to see like how that changes you actually can track that and not be like okay well obviously what my auditions
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are next year you can see what it is next month Ah that's super cool you know I would
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imagine too can you pull up your like your progress on a monthly basis is it like a dashboard like that yeah
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absolutely so you can see your progress on a monthly basis um you know you can stack by quarters
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you can you know if you want to dive into the Scopes you can look at it by a scope analysis you don't have to but you
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don't have to know anything about it you just know we prompt you for like what we need and as much as we can we automate
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it well and I just want everybody who's listening to know that as someone who's
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be Corp certified and going through a recertification I'm raising my hand it
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would be wonderful to be able to pull this kind of information because I'm you know contriving it from different
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resources that I have have to measure things um that that's a total benefit of the
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service of Aclymate I sound like a commercial right now um but I mean like seriously like I get
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it and then the second one is just being able to pull reports because investors are looking more and more at investing
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in companies that are measuring their impact um and to be able to do so on a base
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like a regular you know a moment's notice and to follow up with an updated
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report I mean like there's so many things that can be done with this information and it is Affordable because
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I was looking at it and um I think the concierge service was like and maybe
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this is just an end entry level concierge service but it was 500 a month is that what I read yeah so right now we
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charge for access to the software uh if you want to have the ongoing analytics and you don't need any support that's a dollar per employee per month so
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incredibly affordable oh gosh and then if you want the concierge service where we'll do the data entry for you and then
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give you some reporting and uh and some a little bit you know more you know hand holding that's 500 bucks a month so very
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very affordable good Lord one dollar an employee per month yep um it's going to
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be going up soon um so if you're interested you know now yeah
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um so yeah talk to Travis um you know Vicky we'll take care of you um yeah uh one of the things that we
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will be replacing uh or be adding to uh isn't an additional tier in the near future with Integrations where we'll be
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able to pull most of this information in automatically um and so as we access those data
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sources that'll cost a little bit more money um we'll announce that later but um but yeah love love making this like a
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really approachable affordable thing we've helped a ton of B Corps like they're like when we did our initial customer Discovery before we even
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started programming I talked to a lot of e-corps and we love helping that you know helping solve problems for decors
29:24
yeah absolutely well um okay I just I love your company congratulations on such a cool cool and
29:33
much needed platform for so many I mean you're gonna
29:38
be hugely successful I think so thank you very much yeah absolutely you know like one one
29:45
little line that I like to pull from the the ipcc reporter from 2018 is is that like
29:51
um every uh fraction of warming matters every like year matters and every decision matters and I think that's like
29:58
really important for all of us um you know and that was that's kind of the Animus of Aclymate this is like how
30:04
can we give decision making like real honest decision making to the rest of us
30:10
um and so I'd love to help you everybody with that and um your lips to God's ears I hope we're as successful as you want
30:15
us to be Vicky yes well I think you will be I I it's it's important and I hope
30:21
everybody will at least go to your website and check it out um
30:27
a-c-l-y-m-a-t-e.com so that's right without spelled differently very cool yeah unfortunately that URL was taken
30:33
but I really like that verb and so I was like okay we're gonna we'll grow it up a little bit here in order to get a
30:39
discrete URL but uh that's what we do that's who we are okay excellent well
30:45
thank you Mike I really appreciate you coming on and uh just letting everybody know a little bit more about not just
30:52
you know your tool but how what Net Zero is I mean I was just befuddled so I feel
30:57
much much more knowledgeable now and I appreciate it yeah I was uh I enjoyed being here thanks for your uh for having
31:03
me Becky you're welcome
31:09
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